Thursday, 20 September 2012

  • Cry It Out (CIO) is Harmful, But...



    When my Little One was a baby she was really good about sleeping. Maybe it was because she slept with me until she was 8 months old and was breastfed until she self-weaned at 19 months. Maybe I was just lucky. Either way she never had to suffer through an attempt of Cry It Out (CIO).

    I didn't know anything about that method when she was a baby other than it was "supposed" to help parents get more sleep and "help" babies learn the "proper" way to sleep through the night. Well, recently I have realized that I am a parent who is a member of the attachment parenting movement and I have learned a lot about the biology of a baby's sleep and the damage that CIO can cause.

    If you Google "Cry It Out" lots of articles about how great it is pop up. But nothing about how bad it can be and how harmful it is for the developing brain cells of a baby. Google it and you won't find out that the creator, Dr. Ferber, found out through his studies that it was harming children but that he never did anything to stop new parents from using his method.

    I know there are tons of parents who will tell you that it works, that their children are happy and healthy and no harm came to them from this method. But I challenge all new parents to do some research about this method and then make up their own minds. One article that I found interesting was this one where I read:

    *Researchers at Yale University and Harvard Medical School found that intense stress early in life can alter the brain’s neurotransmitter systems and cause structural and functional changes in regions of the brain similar to those seen in adults with depression.

    *One study showed infants who experienced persistent crying episodes were 10 times more likely to have ADHD as a child, along with poor school performance and antisocial behavior. The researchers concluded these findings may be due to the lack of responsive attitude of the parents toward their babies.

    What are your views? How did you come to your conclusion about CIO?

     

     

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Comments (36)

  • mommalosingit@xanga

    I am adamantly against CIO. Did not do it with any of my kids. I feel like CIO is more of a selfish thing for parents. We have to remember our babies were in our bellies for 9 months, literally attached, so what if they need us. No one said parenting was easy and before you know it they are grown and no longer want to cuddle.

  • sarahsmurfette@xanga

    I think there are healthy and responsive ways to "cry it out" at an appropriate age. Babies should not be able to dictate the operation of the household ad infinitum. An overly tired Mom is a frustrated, impatient Mom.

    I came to my conclusion through instinct when mothering my two children.

  • radicalsounds@xanga

    @sarahsmurfette@xanga - This.


    It's also important to remember that poor sleep can be harmful for developing infants and children. 
  • rwiedenfeld

    I did the CIO method it worked for my daughter... We read Dr. Ferber's book people think CIO is just laying your kid down and walking away until they figure it out.. WRONG! We read the book front to back before even attempting anything. We started out at 2min. then 4min. then 6min. then if she was still crying went in at 6min. every time after we did this until she figured it out.. i'd let her cry longer in the car or during tummy time lol. The other thing too parents need to listen to the type of cry.. there were some nights we didnt do it at all her cry was different meaning maybe she was teething, sick, or just needed mommy but i dont have time to hold my child 24/7 mommy needs a break and sleep too! My husband also traveled for work at the time so it was just me all alone that had a factor into the decision also.

  • sarahsmurfette@xanga

    @rwiedenfeld - I was often the sole care provider for my children too for days at a time, since my husband is in the military. Maybe that did play a part in my choice.

  • Foodhog@xanga

    Interesting article. I see how it could have bad effects on the child. This would be something I never really thought of before but then again I am not a parent.

  • LondonsMommy

    I really hate it, to a certain extent. When my daughter was a few months old we tried everything to get her to sleep. She threw a fit when I rocked her, but if I laid her down she screamed then too. One night I laid her down and went to make her a bottle, and when I came back she had curled up with her blanket and went to sleep. From then on, if I left her to whine for about 5 minutes she went to sleep. But if she was actually crying I went back to rock her for a while. We had tried the CIO method (suggested by her doctor) a few weeks earlier, and she just turned purple and became so upset. It obviously was very stressful on both of us. It just felt unnatural. She is now 14 months old and she enjoys going to bed and has no problems sleeping on her own. 

     However, my aunt let her baby, at about 9 months old, scream for hours until she threw up. She said "She just won't sleep..she wants to lay on me to sleep." So what?? Put her in your bed and let her sleep. Is it so wrong for a baby to want to be nurtured and be with her mommy? Her doctor told her she needs to just let her cry. Which is stupid. 9 month olds do not need to be independent. 
    It makes me so mad when I hear people talking about letting their babies cry. My best friend has a baby a few months younger than mine, and her parents are always telling her to let him cry "so he learns." Sad.

  • Morbid_Whisper660@xanga

    I tried the CIO method once or twice with my son, seeing as so many people i knew had it work wonders. It was NOT for us. He'd just cry and cry until he was so upset he couldn't sleep even if he wanted too. I quickly realized that it may work for some kids, and i understand those who chose to do it. But for my son and I, it wasn't working.

    I'm okay with going in every few minutes to check on them, pick them up to soothe them then laying them down again (If that works for you). But i don't agree with mom's who lay them down and don't return until morning, regardless of the amount of screaming. That i believe is harmful to the baby. I know a handful of people who tried to tell me that is what i needed to do, and that if i didn't teach my son to sleep on his own i'll be rocking him every night until he's 5. When i asked one of my friend's how she could stand to hear her baby cry all night (her daughter was 4 months old at the time) she replied "I just turn up the TV." Do what!? I just couldn't do that.

    My son is now 18 months old and he sleeps in bed with me. I rock him to sleep some nights, other nights i walk with him, and sometimes i just have to lay down next to him. In total it usually takes less 10 minutes and he's asleep. Sometimes it can take half and hour or more. But i'm okay with that. It works for us and i'm happy to comfort him. Sometimes, yes, i wish he'd just go to sleep on his own without me needing to soothe him or share my bed. But will i be rocking him until he's 5 because of the way i get him to sleep? Doubt it. The older he gets the less and less of "mommy" he needs to sleep. I used to have to rock, sing, sway and cuddle for over an hour, now it's 5-10 minutes and he's out.

    What works for some, doesn't work for all. So if you use the CIO method and it works, good for you. But if it doesn't work for me then don't tell me how bad of a mother i am or how much i'll regret it later on. That's for me to decide. And vice versa, just because the CIO method didn't work for me, doesn't give me the right to bash anyone out there who's had it work wonders.

    (Sorry this was so long, haha)

  • sarahsmurfette@xanga
  • andweknowthis@xanga

    I tried it and couldn't handle it. It just seemed wrong. Probably because it is wrong. But if it works for one family, great - I won't judge. 


    I did controlled crying where I'd let him cry for a few minutes then go back in, let him cry for a few minutes more then go in... over the course of a couple of weeks it got the stage where I would just let him have a little cry and not go back to him and he'd fall asleep. It's not about neglecting or ignoring his needs, this is how he settles himself. Now at 11 months he doesn't normally cry but will chatter away or complain to himself for sometimes up to an hour before he falls asleep. If he does cry it means he's super tired and will be out within a couple of minutes if I leave him.
    I always found that my presence (especially in the first six months when I was BF) made him cry more when he needed a sleep. That's why we moved him out of our bedroom into his own at three months. I suppose it was because he could smell me and my milk and would rather comfort that way.
  • dw817@xanga

    My G/F tells me to CIO. She's always been concerned that if something bothers me that I would leave it cooped up inside where it can be a problem later. I have to agree with this logic.

    So, if something bothers you, let others know, and if necessary, CIO. Φ

    And don't be alone when you cry because the comfort of your friend will always soften the pain of your tears and you heal that much faster inside.

  • TiredSoVeryTired@xanga

    I tried Dr. Ferber's method with my oldest child, born when I was in the Navy.  Not only did it not work, but it terrified me.  So, for the first several months I got no sleep, she got no sleep.  That's the way it is sometimes when you are a mother.  I later did co-sleeping with my next two kids, onfe of the greatest and smartest parenting moves I ever made!

  • rachmorgan01

    I think the CIO method means different things to different people, and judgements fly based on the various definitions. I have heard of people who let their babies cry and cry until they tire themselves out or throw up or both, and to me, that is wrong. Maybe I'm just ignorant, but I don't believe ignoring a child's needs was what Dr. Ferber had in mind... However, I see nothing wrong with a parent implementing a system that allows their child the opportunity to work things out on their own (i.e. letting them cry for a few minutes to see if they stop and going in to soothe them if they don't).

    All 3 of my children learned to fall asleep in their cribs on their own after I implemented a system like the one I mentioned in the previous paragraph. I paid very close attention to the sound of their cries, and if I felt there might be something wrong or if we were in the throes of teething or illness, I'd help them fall asleep. I went with my instincts, and sleep training/CIO/whatever you want to call it worked for us.

    I don't want to come off as judgemental, but I think some parents may be taking the attachment parenting style to an unhealthy extreme. I do not think our children need to dictate every minute of our lives. Yes, we're parents and our children should be our top priority, but we don't all have the time (or the desire) to hold our babies 24/7 or spend an hour or more getting them to sleep at night. Call me selfish if you want, but I truly believe parents need "me time" to stay sane and recharge the batteries, and if that means sleep training a baby in a healthy way, so be it.

  • firetyger@xanga
    When my oldest was born my husband was prepping for a sixteen month deployment. She was two months old when he left. For many months, I let her sleep beside me in bed because I breastfed her and it was easier that way for both of us.

    When it came time for my husband to come home, he wanted me to have her in her own bed by then because he is a bed hog and was afraid he'd roll on her in his sleep. So over the course of a week, I would put her in her own bed. She would cry, I'd take her back out and rock her, put her back down, let her cry. We tried it like this for the first two days and it went on for hours. Leaving us both exhausted. The next night, I left her in her crib the entire time but would come in every five minutes and either rub her back or pat her hand, letting her know I was there but she needed to try to sleep. After that night, I let her cry it out. She cried for a long time, no vomiting or turning purple. But it was a long cry. However, it only took two nights of that and she was able to self-soothe herself. Which at the age she was at, I think it was okay for her to learn it.

    I would definitely not recommend letting a baby cry until it was vomiting or turning colors. I think it needs to be age appropriate. Follow your gut and know your kid.
  • Pollypinks@xanga

    My son and his wife decided when my grandson was six months old, or, shall I say his wife decided, that the baby should "work it out", and I was grossly disappointed that the doctor didn't get more involved.  He told them that if they'd done everything they could think of to make the baby comfortable, then that was the last resort.  Well, over  time it hasn't been the last resort.  They think it's normal for a child to cry.  I've been bitterly let down that my son has picked up on her parenting, or lack thereof, skills.  it's somewhat better now, and when I have him, and he's so exhausted he's starting to have a tantrum, I'll put him to bed, and within 5 minutes he's gone to sleep.  But I strongly disagree with crying it out.  And I strongly disagree with them putting him in his play room alone while he's crying it out, because he hates being alone.  I belonged to a church a while back that rented the upper floor to the YMCA for they toddler's daycare program, and I'd go in once a week for a meeting, and through out that entire meeting I'd hear nothing but blood curdling screams and cries from upstairs.  There is absolutely no way you know what is going on with a baby or a toddler in day care as far as crying it out, because your baby doesn't have one on one care provided.

  • ccccourage@xanga

    I mothered by instinct and mine was not to let my babies cry themselves to sleep. They also slept in the bed with me till they were weaned. Never had a problem with them moving to their own bed by the time they were 2 and a half. They are all grown now and normal well adjusted adults. So I guess it didn't do any harm.

    This is not to imply that letting them cry it out does harm, I don't know cause it wasn't my choice in parenting. I think it would have damaged ME to have left my babies crying, because it isn't who I am.

  • TracyKM

    There are plenty of great articles to be found on the Peaceful Parenting website.  Crying is a sign of distress, one of the few ways a baby can communicate (particularly if he can't see his caregiver).  Why should I ignore this, just to "teach" him go to sleep?  Like all things, kids will stop having a need once that need is filled.  It's hard to believe when you feel like you've been glued to the rocking chair for hours, but it is true.  He can't fill his needs, so you have to do it for him. 

  • hereinyourarms11@xanga

    I don't think it's wrong in any way. Unless the parent can obviously tell something is wrong by the sound of the cry (like if the baby is hungry or sick or something). However, I'm not saying it's right either. I think it depends on the parents, and especially the child, and what works best within that specific family.

  • under_the_carpet@xanga

    I don't know why I'm recing this, I guess bc I do feel like many don't know it can be harmful.
    I read about it in a local newspaper article once.  It said that it possibly leaves the kid with a feeling of being alone in the world, and basic needs being ignored. That resonates with the neurotransmiter stories. It said that leads to insecurity while a secure background is what leads to emotional stregth. It makes sense in every way. Before kids are intellectually and physicaly capable of MEETING their needs, and taking care of themselves, they need the parents for it.

    I think the problem with babies is that sometimes you just don't have much of a choice for practical reasons (like you don't know what's wrong). I wouldn't even point fingers a parents who just want a night of sleep and let their kid cry for a while a couple of times when it cries often.

    But what really bothers me is when parents use it as a regular method, bc they assume the baby 'plots' something against them, and they are 'enabling' 'bad' behaviour.
    A baby that cries (even though crying is annyoing) is no worse than a mature-acting assertive person. It responds to its own needs (not "entitlements") and communicates them at its best knoweledge. Babies do not have the intellectual capacity to manipulate anyway, so they shouldn't be punished. What I also find so cruel about his is that babies who cry a lot are stamped as "difficult people" when really it can be constipation or an illness that makes them feel badly.

  • plursheep@xanga

    three words: KNOW YOUR KID!  I was a really quiet baby so me crying was a BIG deal.  Something was wrong (wet diaper...for example.)  My little brother I remember checking up on simply because he was ALWAYS silent.  My older sister however I heard was always loud and her cries were hard to distinguish so family was always there to the rescue.  She is a super needy person now.  Maybe thats why?

    It goes the same with any animal though.  Generally one way you teach a dog to stop barking is to ignore barking if they're doing it for attention.  However if your dog is generally silent and starts barking....

  • VampireOfSeduction@xanga

    @dw817@xanga - I'm pretty sure she's referring to the idea that parents should drop their baby in the crib and ignore him/her until s/he passes out.

    I'm not at all for it, but I don't have kids yet. For myself, while I'll look into the studies, I'm very aware of the way things get skewed, mis-reported, lied about, etc. I'm more interested in what my instincts say. As humans, we seem to largely have moved away from what should come natural to us. I'm not sure why.

  • ulvenNixie@xanga

    I think you have to go with what fits with your child. I'm against the idea that you just let your baby cry and cry and cry. Something is wrong or is clearly needed if that's going on. You can't always be right there for every cry though. Sometimes its just being fussy before they go to sleep. It depends on your child and individual situations.

  • grizzlybearr@xanga

    i think there is definitely a right way and wrong way to use cio. and i think the people who use it the wrong way are the ones who give it a bad name. it can be harmful...but it's not all bad.

  • dw817@xanga

    @VampireOfSeduction@xanga - I - never had that happen. When I was real little I'd cry and BAM ! Whatever it was I usually got.

    Course as I got older Dad learned to REASON with me, and that usually stopped me crying and I think it helped me learn stuff overall.

  • rachmorgan01

    I know this comment is going a bit off topic, but has anyone ever thought about the extreme opposite of the CIO method? I'm talking about parents who take attachment parenting too far... Now, I see nothing wrong with co-sleeping or any other aspect of attachment parenting, but has anyone ever come across someone who is, for lack of a better description, too attached? I'm only asking because I had a friend (the friendship ended last year after things got nasty when I told her I could no longer be her child's babysitter) who, in my opinion, was too attentive to her baby. From the moment she brought M home from the hospital, my friend and her mother allowed M to completely dictate every single aspect of life. During her maternity leave, my friend refused to take care of herself. During the 6wks she was home, my friend showered a total of 3 times, waited until her mother got home from work to eat and contracted a UTI because she wouldn't even put her baby down long enough to use the toilet. After my friend returned to work and I began watching M during the day, I quickly became aware of the way things worked in their household. M had to be held at all times unless she was fast asleep. If she even so much as whimpered or stirred when being transferred, you had to start all over again, and most of the time, M wouldn't go back to sleep. Playing on the floor with toys was a no go. In fact, as soon as she felt an altitude change, M's face would scrunch and she'd start to whine. Same thing if you tried to put her in her bouncer. My friend would actually pull over, even on the freeway, if M started to fuss in the car. She was often late for work and other engagements because of this. Long story short, M was 8mo old when I quit being her sitter, and she couldn't hold or manipulate objects, couldn't roll over, couldn't sit up and she was beyond tired because she never napped and was only sleeping for 3-4 hours a night. I called CPS on my friend and her mother the day before I quit, and to this day, I stand by my choice. This little girl was being abused, in my opinion, because she wasn't allowed the chance to develop any skills. My friend and her mother were so afraid of ever letting M cry that they were holding her back. Now that I've written a novel, I think I'd better get to my point... I think there is a fine line between abuse/neglect and healthy sleep training when it comes to the CIO method, but I also think there is a fine line between healthy attachment and unhealthy attachment.

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