A friend (a male) sent me this video (NSFW!) of a woman complaining her ass hurt during child birth. I was glad to see that they stopped pushing her and let her relax for a moment. I think this is a good example of how women were not designed to give birth immobilized on a table (literally 2 people holding her legs back!) for the convenience of doctors & midwives.
This same friend asked, "Do you support the use of doulas, midwives, and/or traditional medicines?"
Here are the replies he received.
Since my abdominal hysterectomy, I've had a wake-up call to how traditional medicine treats women & their reproductive system. The day after surgery, I was moved to the maternity ward. Infertile me, who's just had the door finally slammed on fertility sent to Maternity because, "They know how to deal with women's issues." Yes, my external incision resembles a C-Section, but inside, nothing was like a c-section. My surgeon didn't come check on me during his rounds "because you weren't in your original room." Did he care enough to inquire as to where I went? Ha. In the morning of day 3, the maternity ward supervisor who hadn't even met me, sent a nurse-assistant in to tell me it was time for me to be released.
At 4 weeks post-op, I had my followup appointment at my doctor's office & he did not even examine me. He told me the pain was normal & that my "eating trouble" would settle down with time. I was not hugely surprised when I had to return for a post-op infection 2 weeks later. It wasn't until I went to the ER in month 6 that my gyno started taking me seriously at all.
When you go to the dentist, you get swabbed and injected with a numbing agent. However, gynecology does not have any of these numbing tools. Routinely women have cryo-freeze applied to their cervix, biopsies sliced from their vaginal vault and even silver nitrate applied with out the slightest consideration or regard of their pain. If you cringe, doctors will snap, "This won't take long" or "this is usually painless." After years of undergoing various procedures for my "women's issues," I never once had a doctor acknowledge pain, while monkeying around in my vagina - an area of your body rich with blood vessels and nerve endings. All these years, I thought I was just horribly over sensitive until I started reading the forums at Hystersisters.com I wish I had found that site years ago when I first started having "women's issues." I wouldn't have felt like such a freak.
Last fall, my sister-in-law opened a
non-profit center in Idaho to educate women on their options at birth. The two hospitals in her area had just stopped offering VBAC (vaginal birth after cesarean) and she and a few others are trying to present the actual science of VBAC versus C-sections to their community. The local medical professionals whose work is supposed to rely on science, are not listening.
I think in the area of "Women's Issues" each woman deserves to hear all the options alternative and traditional, and have their choices respected by all professionals.
What do you think?
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Comments (25)
I guess I am lucky that I have always had good gynecologist that practiced traditional and alternative medicines. However, I agree with you. Women's health needs a lot more consideration than it has been given. We shouldn't be using almost the same techniques and treatments they used when my mother was a young woman.
Yeah, I know this sounds silly, but I can't bring myself to watch the movie. After having given birth at home, without stress, blaring lights or anyone telling me what "I need to do", the topic of women's rights in this capacity angers me.
Not to turn this political, but this is one very good reason that I am vehemently against government-run healthcare. As it is now, I can find a different doctor (or whatever) that will treat me the way I feel I should be treated. As competition becomes more and more restricted, there will be less options, and less reason for any doctor or service provider to "go the extra mile" or care anything about what the patient wants.
If you think you have a lot of rights or choices when you give birth ... you're in for a reality check. When you sign that consent form when you pre-register, you just agreed to anything the doctor says.
I absolutely think there is hope! There was a student OB training with my midwife and I ended up having her attend to me for the most part. When I started pushing and complained about pain in my back, she actually suggested that I lay on my side - what a lifesaver! She was full of nontraditional ideas and I heard the midwife say, "Oh, I wouldn't have suggested that, but it looks like it works for her!"
It was the nurses at the hospital that got to me, mostly after the birth. There was too much pressure to breastfeed on a schedule despite my son wanting to sleep - the midwife directly told me that she had this problem too and that she had told the nurses to leave her alone, but I was too tired to follow through.
Anyway, this is why women should "shop around." Ask tough questions - think up the most controversial things you MIGHT do and ask if it will be a problem.
@sarahsmurfette@xanga - I didn't sign a consent form at my hospital! Maybe because you bring an outside doctor or midwife with you...The only option during the birth that I didn't have was about wearing the belly monitors, which I do understand. There was also a bit of a scuffle when they caught me eating shredded wheat, but obviously they can't stop me from eating...
I don't really know what to say, but this is upsetting.
@LupusInvictus@xanga - Shopping around isn't always an option. For instance I have Tricare, the military's insurance. If I don't go to an approved doctor, I am not covered, at all. In the area I live there is only one Ob/Gyn who participates with Tricare - within an hour's radius.
I didn't have a choice about iv access. I was not allowed a birth ball. I was not allowed to use the shower (water and heat can be good pain relief methods). I was not allowed to use my Ipod to listen to relaxing music.
I fought for my right to try for VBAC prior to my son's birth which is the only reason I was "allowed" to try. Where I live now I would be automatically scheduled for a cesarean against my will unless I went underground.
Women's rights in the area of childbirth in particular are far behind the times. I would think organizations like NOW would be all over this. And yet, it persists and has even worsened in my lifetime, I have seen it worsen in the last 7 years. Do you know anyone who has been rolled down the hospital on a gurney yelling "I DO NOT CONSENT" to her unnecessary cesarean as they ignored her, marked on her chart that she was mentally incompetent (she refused on the grounds that there was no evidence-based fact to show her or her baby were at risk and that the c-section was not medically indicated) and cut her open anyway? I do.
I don't see it getting better. But based on what I hear other people say, it might be different depending on your geographical location. I hope that is true. I really do.
SmurfSarah is by far a better source than I on things like this... but I will say that there are a shocking number of unsafe practices in the health business in the name of convenience for the doctor. I recently just ended a relationship with a doctor whose first recommendation was several hundred dollars of uncomfortable tests for any problem I had... before even starting the simplest of dialogues with me. He ordered an MRI when I went to him complaining of leg pain before even looking at my knee. I have great medical coverage (80-90% on most things), and that's still a several hundred dollar procedure decided upon in a sixty second window. This is one of several examples... anyways...
The particularly sticky birth-issue I find these days is the tendency of doctors to schedule inductions in and around their own personal schedule. When did we decide a baby staying inside a mother for an extra week or two is such a terrible thing? The whole induction procedure seems awful unsafe to me, but somehow the egos of our doctors have dictated that their personal convenience is really the top aspect of patient safety.
Health care is still so paternalistic, it's sad. My last child was born in a midwife staffed birth center (out of hospital) birth... easiest birth of all 3.
I work in medicine and I 100% believe that if I was in that room and that nurse or "assistant" was talking to me or anyone i cared about, her ass would be the one hurting.
@sarahsmurfette@xanga- That sucks, but yes, I do think it depends on the location. And the military hospitals seem to be quite different, I've heard more horror stories from base hospitals than others.
@LupusInvictus@xanga - I never birthed in a military hospital. The stories I know are civilian. My children were birthed in regular civilian hospitals. In Jacksonville, Florida. In two different hospitals. (One in the hospital I worked in, so I felt extra betrayed by the people I knew and staff I worked with, and the other was because I still had medical insurance through my job. I was not on my husband's insurance at the time.)
I can't say that I'm surprised the treatment of "Women's Issues", to be honest. I am completely appalled, but I'm not surprised. I guess that's because the last few times that I've gone to the doctor, I had issues with their regard for me as a patient, particularly the family practice doctor I went to see. When he first diagnosed me, he told me that I had Reflux, gave me a perscription that my insurance wouldn't cover, wouldn't give me a perscription for a generic, and sent me out the door. He acted like everthing was nonchalant when I told him about the extreme pain I was suffering in my entire abdomin, and then talked to him about my other concern, which had to do with my genitals. He seriously acted like it was no big deal. Now, I have low pain tolerance, but this pain would send me to the floor in the fetal position. It was hard to breath, hard to do anything, and it would last for days at a time. He could not care less. I really mean that. I could have told him that I was pooping butterflies and had rainbow colored toe-nails and he would not have batted an eye. He probably would have told me I had strep along with Reflux. When it came to the other concerning issues, he had a grumpy looking nurse step in as what he called a "chaperone", I showed him the area, he looked from across the room, told me to put it away (like I whipped out my breast just to show it to him), the lady left, and he told me it was was basically nothing and that it would go away in a few years. Well, the pain never let up, the medicine that the pharmacy recommended for me didn't do squat, and I kept going to the doctor for some kind of help. I couldn't live with that pain all the time. It was terrible. They figured out it was gallstones with one ultrasound. I had to have my gallbladder removed. The surgeon and the staff at the surgery center were much more helpful and they told me what I needed to know, for the most part. The doctor at that family practice literally told me I had reflux, gave me a perscription, and sent me on my way. He didn't even tell me what reflux was or that I would have to change my diet completely. I don't have reflux anymore, if I ever did at all. I learned that I have to ask an excess of questions, even ones that seem like obvious ones for the doctor to tell you, when I see a doctor. Now THAT was with NORMAL, EVERYDAY, medical practice.
I can hardly imagine how awful it is with the specialized practices, such as seeing an OB/GYN. I have a feeling that when I have children, that's going to be an absolute nightmare. I think the health care system over all needs to be looked at. So many doctors just don't know how to treat patients. It's really sad, and extremely inhuman.
And that is the reason why I keep a copy of both the 1977 edition, and the current edition of "our bodies, ourselves" in my library.
I've got all the pages of what constitutes government run health care, and basically why people are so adamantly against this is because they've been told at their fundamentalist churches that it's wrong. I too disagree with holding my butt and legs upwards to give birth, but women have the right to seek out midwives who many times can practice in a hospital, where, should something go wrong, you've got back up. The U.S. still has a maternal mortality rate higher than other westernized nations, partly because women can't afford it, so they do it at home, not knowing they are at risk. So, if I had insurance, or, enough money, I'd play it cool and do what the doctor says, knowing that if I hemorrhaged, my life could be saved. Such was the situation with my first birth 36 years ago, and things have changed considerably since then. If you knew how we did it then, you wouldn't be so upset. Also, in this country, go to a specialist, and plunk down $300.00 for the first visit, and if you have insurance, you'll get an allotment of how many visits you will get. Do you really believe all the homeless live like that because they love it? I'm bipolar, and having conversations with people in the park leads me to believe that the poor, the mentally ill, simply have no care, no where to go, maybe occasionally during winter months. Oh no, after 18 years of looking for a doctor to tell me what was wrong with me, and being bankrupt, I'd take nationalized medicine anyway and save my house.
@sarahsmurfette@xanga - I have tricare also but where are you station at? Am at fort Benning and they very much promote more of a natural birth. They have squat bars, birth balls, a tub you can labor and give birth in and shower if you can't do the tub. (only one tub) They allow to walk around. I would sue the hospital that did that to me.
@LexiTheViolentHippie@xanga - You need permission to sue the government from the government. Good luck with that.
Not only that but I know from my sister's birth experience, that unless a patient's chart says basically "we messed up" lawyers can't/won't take the case (that may be different in different states, but that was true in Georgia). The reason is because unless a "medical expert" who reads the medical chart of the patient and procedure in questions says that there was gross negligence that caused injury or whatever you are going for, there is no case to be brought to court. In my sister's case, the only one I have personal experience in, the nurses wrote in her chart that she was hearing conversations that weren't real (but her husband was there and heard the same thing). That was to place doubt on her memory of her experience. The nurse stepped on her catheter when she pulled my sister up out of bed post-op, and it pulled the catheter out of her body - she documented in the chart that she "found" the catheter already mysteriously out of my sister when she got there. 2 days of her chart are missing entirely.
I'm just saying, malpractice lawsuits are not as easy to bring as we think they are. And people who have messed up are not always honest about it.
Again, I have never birthed in a military facility, I am not downing them at all. I was working and had other insurance, Tricare always (always) pays second. I had to play by the rules of my other insurance.
@sarahsmurfette@xanga - Am about to give birth in a military hospital in about month in half. I just know what they have one hand. Sorry to hear that all happen to your sister! I would have been so freaking pissed off. I probably would had my grandad on the phone before I was out of the hospital assuming I was in TN when it happen. (his a lawyer and good)
Wow, I'm not really sure what to say. I've only had one bad experience, and I simply never refused to ever see that again. Luckily he wasn't associated with my OB/GYN for long. The guy wasn't a jerk, he was just an idiot. Well, kind of a jerk for not really listening to me, I guess. Every other doctor I've had down there, and those who were at the surgery center when I miscarried were, at the least, good. Some were great and really nice. They haven't always been the most knowledgeable, but I've never felt like they've blown me off or were unsupportive.
As for what options are available, I never cared what my insurance would or wouldn't cover. I was going to do what I thought was best, and go where I thought was best. In my case, that means I need to find a new doctor, one affiliated with the hospital I've chosen. But I don't have to worry about that until/unless I get pregnant again.
I think in the area of "Women's Issues" each woman deserves to hear all the options alternative and traditional, and have their choices respected by all professionals.
AMEN!!!!
Sorry to hear about your insensitve and ignorant caregivers. As a nurse, I have seen far too often that doctors and nurses don't take patients seriously all of the time.
I have learned from experience to ALWAYS listen to the patient and follow-up on what they say.
It has paid off many times in helping them get better more quickly.
I recently had a miscarriage (a little over a month ago)... I refused to go to the ER because it was happening over the weekend because my mom & bro's gf both had awful experiences similar to mine being in the ER with docs who were not friendly and showed no sympathy... my bro's gf was told she miscarried... but she actually did not...
So I went to the OBGYN after the weekend & they did an exam, a pee test, and drew blood (to test HCG level)...and told me to come back a few days later for more blood to compare HCG levels. I went back a few days later like I was told and the tech says "they didn't call you? It was negative. You can go now." Freaking rude & I had started coming to terms with it, but it was painful & hard to deal with all over again that day. I would've preferred a phone call at least or someone telling me that Monday... ugh.
Docs, nurses, and people in the health care field should be a little bit more considerate of women and their issues. It's scary enough for me to go to the OBGYN for a regular visit, let alone if something were wrong.
This is one of the reasons why I will try my hardest to give birth to my future children at a birthing center. If you want an insightful video, watch "The Business of Being Born." I will not tolerate inductions around a doctor's schedule (which is more likely to make labor more painful, stall labor and make it necessary for a cesarean section).
@feelslikejuly@xanga - I absolutely wish I had gone that route with my first. I didn't. I went with the typical Ob/Gyn and it went the anticipated way you describe. I no longer have the choice of a birthing center due to my resulting cesarean. I encourage you to find that birthing center. Kudos to you for researching it now.