Friday, 27 April 2012
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Illegal To Leave Kids In The Car? – New York’s Newest Parenting Bill
Guest post by Elizabeth from www.rockabyeparents.com
New York State has recently passed a bill that makes it illegal for a child under the age of 8 to be left alone in a motor vehicle. A child can also not be left in the vehicle with anyone under the age of 12. Children cannot be left, “under conditions which would knowingly or recklessly present a significant risk to the health or safety of the child.” The fine for breaking the law is a $50 fine for the first violation, no more than $100 for a second violation that is within 18 months of the first, and no more than $250 for a third, but a third would be a misdemeanor and would require a court visit.
The New York Senate unanimously passed the bill, but there are many critics that feel that the law is very vague and will end up being nothing more than a revenue maker. Many feel that the law is too open leaving a lot of room for interpretation by the cops enforcing it. One retired cop, Steve Epps, also said that he didn’t like that it didn’t include different levels of offense such as, “parents who leave a child in a car for a few minutes while they run into a grocery store to get a quart of milk and drug addicts who leave their vehicle to buy narcotics and completely forget the child was with them.” One of the biggest things critics don’t like about the law is that the penalty fines are actually lower than the ones given for leaving a pet alone in a motor vehicle in extreme cold or heat.
I understand the reasoning behind the bill, and I applaud those taking steps to protect children, but I personally feel that, for the most part, this is a pointless bill. First of all how many of us have truly never left our kids alone in the car? Now I’m not talking about leaving them alone while you run errands. I’m talking about the quick in and out. I recently forgot something, and I left my son safely strapped into his car seat while I ran back into the house. I was gone all of 30 seconds. I also know people that feel their child is safer strapped into their car seat while they run the groceries into the house than to leave their child in the house unsupervised. In a perfect world there would always be two adults around so kids would always be supervised, but that just isn’t the case.
The bill is also very vague. What exactly are, “…conditions which would knowingly and recklessly present a significant risk to health or safety of the child?” Does that mean running into the house or up to a drop box would be alright, or does being alone in the car at all break the law? Personally I think that any parent that leaves their child alone in a car when it presents a risk to the child’s health and safety is not making a good decision and is likely not a fit parent. If that’s the case then those kids are probably not being treated correctly to begin with.
The reason behind the law was good, but the bill itself still needs work though. I’m not really sure how much good it will do though because the parents that leave their kids in cars in unsafe conditions aren’t likely to change their ways just because they might get a ticket.
What are your feelings about the bill? Would you leave your child alone in a car?
You can read the entire article here.
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Comments (66)
i think it's different when you're in your driveway. on very few occasions i've run inside to grab my sunglasses or something. or i'll open the front door before i go grab the kids if they're asleep in the car.
however i've never done it in public. and i would never do it.Omg. I think that's too much. I especially don't like the specification of leaving them in a CAR, because it is stupid.
How big is the risk really? If I leave the kid inside the car while grocery shopping in the safe area in which I live I do not put them in signifigant danger. Many cars even have alarm systems. And if someone broke in, everyone could see it.
Children as young as 4 might know they WANT to stay in the car. Maybe they are tired or just want to stay inside the car to play. Should parents not let them? They let them walk to school or to the bus stop alone, or ride their bicycles or skate with friends. For a kidnapper it is much easier to "grab" a little kid that sneaked away from the parent in the grocery store than to break into a car.
Of course there are parents who might forget the kid in the car. But these are the same who forget kids at the gas station or in the super market. If it's a longer period of time where they have no possibility of eating or using the bathroom that's different from just leaving them for a few minutes but the primary problem is neglect, the longer period of time, not the car.
About 7 years ago, I was loading groceries in the car with my 10 month old sitting in the cart seat. Out of nowhere, a car backs up and does not see myself or the cart at the end of my SUV and is dangerously close to running my child over. Much yelling and frantic waving pursued. I finally threw myself between the car and the cart and banged on the back of the car with my arms. The driver stopped and looked at me like I was nuts. When I yelled a set of obscenities at him that were not G-rated, a bunch of people all crowded around and basically called him names as well for not watching where he was going.
Now, after I am done shopping, the kids go in the car while I load it up. And yes, I walk away from the car for 10 seconds to put the cart back. So if you're gonna fine me for that...I'll see you in court.
If it's for one second while you put your shopping cart back, it's fine, but kids shouldn't be left in cars while you go and do your errands. If you don't think your kids are well-behaved enough for the grocery store, leave them at home with your partner or a friend and go without them. Stores are open 24/7 so saying you don't have the time isn't an excuse. You should either bring your child with them or leave them at home with someone else.
How guilty would you feel if one of them got kidnapped or if they injured themselves by doing something stupid? Look at Madeleine McCann - her parents left her alone in their apartment while they had dinner and now she's been missing for five years. You'd NEVER forgive yourself if something happened while you left your kids - and it only takes a minute for something like that to happen too. If New York needs to pass a law to stop a careless few parents, then so be it. If you don't do it anyway, you have nothing to get upset about.
@under_the_carpet@xanga - there is a risk, though. You'd never forgive yourself if something happened to your kids. If they're too tired or grumpy or don't want to go the store, don't take them in the first place. Leave them with a sitter or a friend or your partner and go without them.
I can see why they made the bill but it is very vague. I can see it being ok if you're right in front of your house or driveway but in the street....please dont. You never know who is watching you & I heard of many car thefts with kids in the car (often babies).
Was I left in the car? Yes but only while my mom ran back in the apartment or to the store. We were taught NEVER to open the door unless it's for them. I dont care if it was someone we knew. And we knew not to touch things only the driver can use. I remember once dad had to go talk to someone in a dealership & he didnt want us in there because it was dead quiet so he left the AC & radio on so we were entertained. I was like 8 or 9 so it was fine. And a good samaritan was BANGING on the window asking if we had air in there because it was the middle of the summer! XD I guess she didnt hear us because she ran inside to find our dad. After things were cleared up, he came back out.
But all jokes aside, they could & should amend this to be more informative as to what is ok versus not. Shit, there are animal protection laws better structured than this one...
@daydreams_nightmares@xanga - That whole case is crazy. I feel bad for Madeleine because it's not her fault but her parents are dumbasses. The hotel had child services but they chose to leave the children asleep & "periodically check on them"....in a foreign country!! They were 3 & 2 years old. That's already neglect & also they changed the story so many times. That's an epic example of bad parenting.
I agree though that you should NEVER leave a child in a car for long periods of time because you dont know who watches you & as I mentioned in my own comment, many car thefts have taken place with children in cars & the thieves dont know it. Thankfully in the stories I read, they either let the kid out on a corner or abandon the car with the baby safe. There are some "smart" people who know not to add a charge to their record but some arent so lucky.
And lets not forget the children who "drive" when the parents leave! My older cousin made the newspaper when he was two because grandma had parked the car with him in it & went to pay for the gas & Chucky got out his car seat!! He ended up exiting the gas station, drove down the block, made a left & ended up hitting a tree!! Thank the Lord he was ok but that's a big reason why you should never leave little kids in the car. He was lucky as hell that he didnt get hit by a car, drive into water or get into a worse scrape than he did!
Leaving a child alone in the car for any reason is stupid... and just asking for trouble.
@daydreams_nightmares@xanga -
I 100% agree with you, and I wish more people left their children at home when they went shopping. I work at Wal*Mart right now and screaming/crying/horrible children make my day miserable.
but, I don't know if I really just live in the middle of nowhere - but I don't think there's a store within a five hour drive of where I live that's open 24/7.
@thatkyliegirlx@xanga - true, not everywhere has stores that are open 24/7, but there's always someone to watch your children, and if not, take them in with you! Give them something to amuse themselves with (a toy, or get them to help you) and you don't need to leave them in a car where God knows what might happen, lol. I'd rather deal with a grumpy toddler than finish the shopping and have no toddler!
@daydreams_nightmares@xanga - Obviously there is. But what I am saying is, the world is full of risks. There ALWAYS is a risk. It's not like I say the car is a really great place for kids, but comparing it to other risks it doesn't seem like one of the most dangerous to me. I'm not saying a car is a SAFE place necessarily, but that depends on so many factors, and I don't see the specific link between danger and being inside the car.
Like most of the posters here, I agree that it is fine and sometimes safer to leave them in the car in your driveway while you bring groceries in the house, but never ever in public. Too many risks. I'd rather have him screaming in the store than dead in the car.
@under_the_carpet@xanga - I guess I see it as a really unnecessary risk. Yeah, life is full of risks but you don't put your kids in a dangerous situation if you can avoid it, and you can always avoid leaving your kids in the car. It's not specifically the car that makes the situation dangerous, it's the fact that they're unattended in public. You wouldn't let your toddler wander off in a grocery store, so why leave them unattended in a car?
Like I said, it only takes a minute for someone to break in and grab your child or steal your car (with the kids inside). It also only takes a minute for a child to throw something through a window and cut themselves on broken glass. Not a risk I'm personally willing to take with my kids, but each to their own.
well, lots of things can happen. It's for safety reasons.
@daydreams_nightmares@xanga - well I wouldn't leave a toddler in the car, but if I had kids, maybe I would do that with a 6 or 7 yr old, for a few minutes. I was always left in the car to read, because I wanted to, and I really think the risk was like zero. It's not like this everywhere but I am convinced in my case it was.
The thing is simply, this is too unspecific. It is basically like this police guy said.
Also if they want to enforce laws to protect kids, they should make some that make sense like "don't leave your kids unsupervised for longer than x minutes. y
minutes in your home. Maybe also a specification for Don't leave them unsupervised in an area that has a
crime rate of z." Stuff like that. This law leaves so much room for interpretation that even extremely careful parents can get into trouble.
In my state there is no specific statute addressing leaving kids in the car. However, cases where parents have left kids in the car have been prosecuted as "reckless endangerment," a felony, for at least a decade and probably two. Jail time is a minimum of 2 years. There are three main reasons: 1) children can overheat in our state; and 2) burglary of a motor vehicle can turn deadly if a child is left in a car when someone tries to steal it; and 3) small collisions in a parking lot can end up killing an unattended child left in a car.
It is already illegal for children under 8 in Alabama so I would never do it. Even if it wasn't against the law, I still would not do it. They aren't going to fine you for leaving your kid in the car while you put the cart away, while you run into your house to grab something you have forgotten, or even to pay for gas. This has nothing to do with putting people who are running errands in the same category with junkies that neglect their children. It is about preventing the accidental death of children who get left in cars while their parents run to do errands. There is at least one death reported every summer where I live where the parents ran into the store to do an errand. I feel sorry for them, because all they had to do was be inconvenienced by bringing their child inside with them.
I don't have kids, but sometimes when the mom I nanny for is out and her 4-year-old falls asleep in the car, she leaves the car on and locks it and will go in quickly for groceries. She has a keyless entry on her car. And for some reason, the only time the 4-year-old will take naps is in the car, so I can understand why she does this.
@under_the_carpet@xanga - nobody is going to fine you for leaving your kid for thirty seconds while your put your shopping cart back or run in to pay for gas. That's not the same as leaving your kid in the car while you go grocery shopping. I always wanted to be left in the car to read as a kid, but I want doesn't always get. Until I was about nine or ten, I either stayed home with my dad or went into the store whether I liked it or not.
It doesn't really matter what the child wants, it matters what's safe for them. And you shouldn't be leaving little kids at home either. If you're going out, for God's sake hire a sitter or take them to their grandparents. Why would you even risk it? You might think your child is trustworthy but other people aren't, and kids make mistakes and do stupid things, especially when they're bored or without supervision. I'd much rather take my kid into the store with me than come back to my car and find an injured or missing child. Surely the mild inconvenience is worth it when you think of the potential consequences? The Madeleine McCann case, for example.
I used to sit in the car all the time when I was a kid. Not when I was a toddler, though, but maybe when I was under eight. I was a big bookworm, so I'd sit in the car and read while my mom shopped for groceries. Not sure how old I was, though.
The biggest issue with leaving your child in the car in Texas is the heat, not someone stealing your child. It is ridiculous how many parents and pet owners still do it though.
I think if you leave your kid in the car they have to be of the age that they know how to get out of it car and lock it back up.
When I was little, I would
askto stay in the car. I liked it. Haha.
"In a perfect world there would always be two adults around so kids would always be supervised, but that just isn’t the case."
In a perfect world there would be no kidnappers, carjackers, or car accidents, so you could leave your kid completely unsupervised and it'd be perfectly fine.
California has that law but in general it depends on where you leave them as well. Example, if you're in your driveway and run in to get glasses...well unless so asshole neighbors are nearby and a cop is hovering around, nobody will care. The law is mostly to prevent accidents. Kids get left in cars at gas stations here and parked in front of ATMs all the time. You KNOW it won't take long and even in bitchy CA people don't complain about that. The problem is when someone runs into a place like a store for a quick minute and the unexpected happens (long lines for example) and it puts a child into danger. Just a couple weeks ago a baby was found passed out in a parked car. The mother went in to grab a couple things (some milk and cereal) but got stuck in a long line. Baby was sent to the hospital and she was thrown in a cop car.