Wednesday, 14 December 2011
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Wondering What My Role Is - How To Talk To Friend About Her Son
I have a good friend who has a son who is turning 5 this weekend. She also has 2 older daughters. All of her kids are pretty intelligent, in fact her almost 5 year old has been reading books (not just words, but books) since he turned 4. Up until recently she has constantly bragged about her kids and how smart they are and how bored her son is going to be in kindergarten next year, and maybe she should just put him in kindergarten now...ad nauseum.
I agree with her, her kids are smart. But, I disagree that he's ready for kindergarten. He can't sit still, he won't follow directions, he is super destructive and he tries really hard to be the alpha male.
Anyways, recently her son has become more and more destructive and less and less social. He won't look people in the eye, he demands things and when he's told that whatever he is asking for is not available, or that he needs to ask nicely for it, he just repeats himself. For example, he was over for dinner last week and he yelled, "I want milk!" My husband told him we didn't have milk but he could have juice or water. He kept yelling, "I want milk!" He also bit a girl in his preschool class (for reasons unknown) a few weeks ago. Remember, this is an almost 5 year old biting a classmate until she bled.
When he was over at our house he kicked my 2 year old in the stomach because he wanted the basketball. When I was asking him about it he refused to look at me and told me my son spit on him. Okay...so I said to both of them, "We don't hit and we don't spit." My friend's son then interrupted me and said, "Hit and spit rhyme." Okay...that's not the point. Later on, he was kicking my son (the same one who is 2) in the crotch and wouldn't quit when my son kept saying, "Ouch! Stop that hurts!"
I've told my friend about the incidents and she always follows through with making him apologize. When he refuses to apologize, she says, "Oh, well, his dad never apologizes either..." (which doesn't mean that we don't teach our kids manners) There just seems to be more going on here than simple "5 year old boy" antics. She's always the first one to point out other people's kids' issues (like when a mutual friend's daughter was diagnosed with autism, she was the one who told her she probably should get her checked). Do I point out that there seems to be something wrong with her son?
Maybe I'm just spoiled by my own kids (who have their own issues, like all children do), but am I crazy to expect a 5 year old to listen and not be aggressive towards children smaller than them? How can I sensitively bring this up with my friend? I truly value our friendship and I don't want to worry about what injuries my kids are going to come home with after spending time with her family. Is there something my friend should be concerned about developmentally?
Oh, and just as a caveat. I'm not saying I'm a better parent or my kids are better kids or anything like that. I'm actually concerned that my friend is so focused on her son's intellectual abilities, that she is overlooking his social graces.
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About the Author
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- From: careegroup@xanga
- Name: Carrie
- About Me: Just your average, everyday, working mommy. Trying really hard to achieve my goals and be the best mom, wife, and person I can be. Bear with me, I'm only human...
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Comments (54)
it does sound like he may have something bigger going on than just parental discipline issues and normal 5 year old misbehavior. The avoiding eye contact thing really is a red flag. It does sound like he could be on the Autism Spectrum. =(
However, you need to protect your children and if the parent isn't seeing that her son needs help of some sort, all you can do is stop having your children interacting.
@IonaLoire@xanga - I'm slightly annoyed by this comment: "we have known from the moment he was born that he would have ADHD."
I mean, I don't know what psychologists you've talked to...but ADHD isn't one of those issues that can be predetermined. If you were so sure that your child was going to have it, you probably set yourself up for disaster and have an "unmanageable" child because of it. If you have ADHD, maybe your child has a slightly higher chance of having the same issues you have, but you seem like you've nailed the hammer in the coffin from day 1.
I get it. Every parent thinks that something is inherently wrong with their child based upon seventeen million different studies that are coming about day after day after day. But do you know what? ADHD is becoming something that every parent points their fingers to when their child is "unmanageable" or "constantly misbehaving". I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. "BRAT" is not a learning disability or a mental imbalance.
i actually have a friend bring up my son's attitude to me awhile back. she told me it was an extremely hard situation for her to be in but he was being pretty mean to her daughter. naturally i was upset but more because i was embarrassed. my son can get pretty rough but it wasn't out of meanness for him. but i was still embarrassed because it made me feel like an awful mom. which i now know i'm not...i just have a BOY. a boy who likes to pretend he's a lion and a pirate and a transformer lol. a boy who roughs with his daddy and doesn't know the difference in playing with daddy and playing with kids.
someone said it's none of your business but if it involves your child getting hurt then yes, it is your business. bring it up to your friend...if she's a true friend she'll listen. if she gets all butt hurt over it that's her fault. i wouldn't allow her son to come over until she takes action though.also, i had to tell my son that his friend wasn't allowed to come over because he was mean to her. i told him we give her hugs and kisses, we don't hit and push. their first visit after all this went pretty well and he's getting better. it's up to the mom to make the changes.
I have a 9 year old daughter who is freakin' brilliant, but totally immature and difficult to manage. She is an absolute angel at school though. Her teachers have told me that she is good, but sometimes prefers to be alone. At home... or out with others when I'm with her... she can be a nightmare. It isn't for lack of trying to be a good parent. My other two kids are very well behaved (my oldest is on the autistic spectrum and even he behaves better than my youngest).
It does sound like this little boy has some impulse control issues. It may or may not be ADHD or Asperger's related, though it could be. And as far as the mom recognizing things in other kids, but not her own, that seems to be quite common. My mom dealt with an autistic 2 year old at the daycare center where she worked... SHE is the one who realized he was autistic. His parents were both psychologists, the mom being one who specialized in early childhood development. You'd think that someone technically qualified to give the kid a formal diagnosis would have seen it. My mom didn't recognize the fact that I am on the spectrum either, until my son was in the testing process and she started pointing out all the same things I did as a kid and still do even as an adult.
The thing is, a lot of people don't want to acknowledge the fact that their kid has a problem. The trouble with that is that doesn't make the problem go away. If anything it only makes it worse. Recognizing the problems for what they are is the first step in doing something productive about them. What works with some kids, doesn't work with other kids. Even within the same family. The things that work with my 11 year old daughter, don't work with my 9 year old. The things that work with my son, don't work with either of my girls. (Nothing I do seems to work with my 9 year old... *shrugs*)
I'd say talk to her. Be kind, be gentle, don't come off accusatory... but also, don't let her just chalk it all up to the fact that he is "just a boy" or "he's like his father." I would wonder if there isn't possibly some issue there too... like maybe the dad is a bit abusive. I don't mean he is dangerously or violently so... but you know, that subtle kind of abuse that just wears a person down emotionally. It definitely sounds like there is a family dynamic there that is subtle, but harmful none-the-less. Your friend might be hiding a lot of emotional turmoil... and her son is acting it out.
Intelligence doesn't excuse being a brat. If she wants him to get a kindergarten education, she is better off home schooling him until he gets his behavior in line with his intelligence.
I think if your friend values you and your opinions (and hey, since she is pointing out issues in other kids), she shouldn't get defensive. If she does, oh well, then shrug and tell her you won't have her kid over anymore. It's one thing to have a kid with issues and be trying to work on them, a whole other to ignore it and get defensive when they are brought up.
@TiPrometto@xanga - I like the "mom of the house" rule. My younger cousins try to always get away with stuff that flies at home with their mom, and when they come to stay with us for a week during the summer, my mom doesn't tolerate that crap. She has always made her rules very clear.
@grizzlybearr@xanga - So you'd say you are overall happy it was brought up and not kept to herself? It sounds like pretty much what you said, your son isn't a bad kid, he is just used to rougher play. It sounds your friend's comments and your actions and conversation with your son overall lead to a good learning experience and allowed him to grow as a person.
My boyfriend works in a public school with kindergarteners, and you can bet that if she sends that boy in with violent behaviors that your friend will be getting calls from the school. You can't tell her what to do with her son, but you can tell her what her son cannot do to yours: It is unacceptable for her son to bully and hurt your child, and that is completely reasonable. When it comes to sending him to school, maybe your friend needs some professionals to let her know that her boy needs help socially. A lot of parents have the "my child is perfect" syndrome and will not snap out of it until their first phone call from the principal.
@IonaLoire@xanga - Thanks, I was thinking the same thing! Some of this sounds just like my son (minus the aggressiveness, he doesn't normally hurt other children). He's 6 years old, and he IS DEFINITELY NOT SPOILED, but when he feels that he wants/needs something, he will yell, "I want milk!" and if I don't have any, and he really wants it, he'll just keep yelling it at me, until I have to take him to his room for some time out. He is very intelligent, it's described as Gifted, but they also have other issues. Anyway, that's my two cents.
@TiPrometto@xanga - You were not there when my son was an infant, and therefore your opinion of me doesn't count. But since you put your two cents in, and are more or less calling me a bad parent for seeking help for my child, who has suffered from a disorder since before he was born.. I'll tell you a bit about him.
My son was born with the ability to hold his head up straight. That means from the moment he was born he had control of his neck muscles. They said fluke.
At two weeks my son began rolling from front to back. The first two or three times he did it, they said fluke. when they observed him and realized he was doing it to move around, they said gifted.
Crawled at 4 months, cruised at 4 months. Took his first steps at 7 months, and was running at 10 months. He was speaking full and complete sentences at 12 months. He could hold conversations and repeat dialogue from shows by the time he was 18 months.
Did I go into this immediately pointing fingers? No. I just prayed my baby was gifted, and it was his slow thyroid that did it. But it became apparent at the age of three that he was impulsive, angry when he shouldn't have been. He cannot sit still, when he gets tired he becomes more aggitated and more hyper. He has all of the symptoms of ADHD and his doctors have said that as well as intelligence, his ADHD is through the roof.
His father, his grandfather, and all of his paternal aunt and uncles have ADHD, both childhood and adult.
Do not presume to know me, and mine, if you do not even take the time to ask.
@IonaLoire@xanga - #1 Didn't call you a bad parent. #2 Never offered an opinion of you, or your child for that matter.
What I DID say was that ADHD can't be predetermined. What I DID say is that you essentially put a nail in the coffin when the kid was born. I didn't ask for your child's life story, but thank you for that. What should I tell you?
Should I tell you that I grew up with ADHD too? Should I tell you that I was reading the newspaper when I was 3? Should I tell you that I chose to remain unmedicated and decided that my inattention was something that I could handle on my own? Should I tell you that I was a Psychology major or that I work for a Psych who also has ADHD (and OCD for that matter), and that it is his practice's focus? Should I tell you that I have a 5 year old who has ADHD and that he is incredibly intelligent but also slightly impulsive? Should I tell you that he also knows how to self control and follow the rules? Should I tell you that I think that ADHD is overdiagnosed so that parents who can't deal with their children have a fallback?
Nah. Probably not.
He sounds autistic. If you bring this up to her, however, make sure that you've studied the subject.
On that note, don't permit this child to hurt your children just because you're afraid of offending his mother.
I have 5 year old twins and in no way would my children ever treat others like that and if they did they would be in MAJOR trouble. I think the only thing you should be doing is protecting your child. Explain to your friend why you will not be having your children around him. I don't think it sounds like he's spoiled. I think he just needs to learn how to manage himself, like every other child. Some use hurting others and need to learn to use their words. My son had a problem with this when he was an older toddler but we taught him how to deal with it without hurting.
I've been very blessed that either the parents I know are good parents and the children my kids normally hang with are nice. I can't imagine being in this situation. I really wouldn't want a child in my home if he was kicking my son in the crotch. I'd probably say what I feel and just not be friends with them as much. I would probably even ask if something was going on with that father... he never apologizes either for what? Good luck!
I don't think its in your place to say anything. Maybe just caught down the amount of time your kids spend with her child.
@armsraceofsound@xanga - No, I disagree with you, She shouldn't mind her own business if the brat is Hitting and Kicking her own children. If I had kids, there is no way I am going to tolerate hits, and kicks from another persons kid towards my own children. There is no way.
Thanks for all of the advice. Even the "mind your own business" advice.
I guess in my mind, my article was clear. But, it's good to hear outsiders perspectives.My oldest son is my friend's son closest friend. We both attend the same church and all of the other kids within their age range are girls. My friend's son is at the same preschool as my 2 year old (he got in trouble at preschool for biting the girl and making her bleed).My friend has asked me for my advice and has always made it clear that she is open to hearing people's thoughts about her kids. We are very open and honest with each other, and she is open about her son being aggressive.She is beginning to see his behavior problems and recently took everything away from him (all privileges) and he has to earn them back.I think she's just ignoring his obvious lack of social skills. He won't look people in the eye, he is demanding, and he blatantly ignores people if he doesn't like what they are saying to him. Multiple times when he is corrected he immediately does the opposite of what he's told. Ugh.I cherish my friendship with this family (our families hang out). I want to say something because I want her to feel empowered as a parent and know that we're on her side. It doesn't do her any good if people just say things about her kid behind her back and not bring it up in a loving way. (Like, "hey, I'm concerned because I've noticed these patterns. What do you think?").Oh, and her husband is definitely not abusive. A little absent perhaps (he works long hours), but he's loving and fun."Anyways, recently her son has become more and more destructive and less and less social. He won't look people in the eye, he demands things and when he's told that whatever he is asking for is not available, or that he needs to ask nicely for it, he just repeats himself"
These are pretty classic signs of Autism Spectrum Disorder. Not saying he has it, just saying... this was the first thing that jumped out at me when I read your description. If this is a friend with whom you interact regularly, along with her son, perhaps you could read up on ASD yourself and see if you think more of his behaviors match, and then maybe approach her gently and just tell her your concerns. It also may help you personally if you're going to interact with him regularly.
@AmyinVA@xanga - That's what I was thinking....I'm hoping the preschool teachers see it too...
If you're friends, then you should be able to tell her. When I was about that age, my mom had a friend who was mother to a classmate of mine. That girl hit people, kicked, threw rocks. She was always in trouble with our kindergarten teacher, was notorious for bullying all the other kids (including me) and had no friends. When my mom visited her mom, she would bring me and my little sister to play with the girl and her little sister. The younger one locked my sister in a room and wouldn't let her out, even when she started screaming (which, of course, brought my mom running) and, as we were leaving, the older girl threw a large rock at my back. My mom never brought us over again, and her relationship with the girls' mom dissolved quickly afterwards. Their mom had the infuriating habit of never getting off her ass to discipline her kids, and always blaming their behavior on a father who always seemed to be too busy for them. But she would never acknowledge that the kids had some serious problems. And they did.
It's hard, but this is affecting your relationship with your friend, not to mention that those little "quirks" her son has may be something much more serious that she needs to address now. The way I see it, she really hasn't given you much choice to do anything other than tell her the truth.
If you do, I hope it goes well for you. If it doesn't, then you may have lost a friend but at least you and your kids will be able to breathe a little easier!
@TiPrometto@xanga - You're right, you probably shouldn't have. What you should have told me is that you are cocky and assume to much.
I do not agree with the people that say it's non of your business. The safety of your own children is your number one priority, and something should be done if this little boy is jeapordizing that safety.
@IonaLoire@xanga - Just going off what was said. And thanks. I love knowing that adults can still throw out insults like that. Have a great holiday season!
tough situation, but the good news is - its not your problem! so your friend's kid is a jerk, who cares? just make sure he doesn't hurt your son when he comes over and any other issue is not your problem, so there's no real need to bring it up and offend your friend and make things awkward.