Wednesday, 14 December 2011
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Wondering What My Role Is - How To Talk To Friend About Her Son
I have a good friend who has a son who is turning 5 this weekend. She also has 2 older daughters. All of her kids are pretty intelligent, in fact her almost 5 year old has been reading books (not just words, but books) since he turned 4. Up until recently she has constantly bragged about her kids and how smart they are and how bored her son is going to be in kindergarten next year, and maybe she should just put him in kindergarten now...ad nauseum.
I agree with her, her kids are smart. But, I disagree that he's ready for kindergarten. He can't sit still, he won't follow directions, he is super destructive and he tries really hard to be the alpha male.
Anyways, recently her son has become more and more destructive and less and less social. He won't look people in the eye, he demands things and when he's told that whatever he is asking for is not available, or that he needs to ask nicely for it, he just repeats himself. For example, he was over for dinner last week and he yelled, "I want milk!" My husband told him we didn't have milk but he could have juice or water. He kept yelling, "I want milk!" He also bit a girl in his preschool class (for reasons unknown) a few weeks ago. Remember, this is an almost 5 year old biting a classmate until she bled.
When he was over at our house he kicked my 2 year old in the stomach because he wanted the basketball. When I was asking him about it he refused to look at me and told me my son spit on him. Okay...so I said to both of them, "We don't hit and we don't spit." My friend's son then interrupted me and said, "Hit and spit rhyme." Okay...that's not the point. Later on, he was kicking my son (the same one who is 2) in the crotch and wouldn't quit when my son kept saying, "Ouch! Stop that hurts!"
I've told my friend about the incidents and she always follows through with making him apologize. When he refuses to apologize, she says, "Oh, well, his dad never apologizes either..." (which doesn't mean that we don't teach our kids manners) There just seems to be more going on here than simple "5 year old boy" antics. She's always the first one to point out other people's kids' issues (like when a mutual friend's daughter was diagnosed with autism, she was the one who told her she probably should get her checked). Do I point out that there seems to be something wrong with her son?
Maybe I'm just spoiled by my own kids (who have their own issues, like all children do), but am I crazy to expect a 5 year old to listen and not be aggressive towards children smaller than them? How can I sensitively bring this up with my friend? I truly value our friendship and I don't want to worry about what injuries my kids are going to come home with after spending time with her family. Is there something my friend should be concerned about developmentally?
Oh, and just as a caveat. I'm not saying I'm a better parent or my kids are better kids or anything like that. I'm actually concerned that my friend is so focused on her son's intellectual abilities, that she is overlooking his social graces.
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About the Author
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- From: careegroup@xanga
- Name: Carrie
- About Me: Just your average, everyday, working mommy. Trying really hard to achieve my goals and be the best mom, wife, and person I can be. Bear with me, I'm only human...
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Comments (54)
Yikes, what a tough tough situation to be in. But if you guys are really close friends and you come to her with the truth...then she has the choice to actually LOOK at how her child is behaving or to ignore the issues and get defensive about it. I don't have a lot of grace when bringing up things like this, as I'm a "tell it like it is" person. It's the truth. If it were me, I'd just tell her that you appreciate the intelligence of her son, but think that some of his behaviors are...less than desirable. Spitting? Kicking? Really?
You are not at ALL crazy to think that a 5 year old shouldn't be acting that way. If mine did, I'd probably flip out. (I'd flip out if my 3 year old did it too...they just know NOT to.) Rules are rules, and there are inherent rules that ALL children should follow - if they don't, it's the fault of the parents for not making their children listen. I don't think this is so much a developmental problem as a behavioral, the child is choosing not to listen because he knows he can get away with it or that it's "cute" or "funny". No thanks.
My friends and I have a "Mom of the house" policy, because they know that I have a plethora of house rules and that they are meant to be followed (and the inherent rules that all children should follow go for everywhere). If there are kids in the house, mine or not, I have the right to discipline them as if they were mine (and same when we are in their houses). It's actually HELPED the destructive and outright rude behaviors of a few of them, but unfortunately it means that the kids listen to ME more than their actual parents. I love my friends, and I love their kids - but that kind of behavior shouldn't be tolerated.
I honestly wish you the best of luck! I know EXACTLY the situation you're in right now. If your friend isn't incredibly sensitive to the truth, everything should work out well!!
I don't think there is a way for you to sensitively bring this up with her. But if you must, I think you have to ask yourself what you want to get out of the conversation. Because chances are, you won't receive it
It's a hard place to be in, but you can't point out anything negative about someone else's kid who they believe hangs the moon, ya know? That knowledge has to come from within for that Mom. The best you can do is protect your kids by being present when the 5 yr old is there, and talking with your kids about right and wrong behavior, even if he's the example of what *not* to be like.
Good luck.
@TiPrometto@xanga - I like the "Mom of the house" rule, and I agree. This is behavioral and not developmental.
Yeah, five year olds shouldn't be biting. I have a five year old and she hasn't bitten anyone since she was a baby (under a year old). My daughter is smart. She can write her name and is starting to read. However, she isn't ready for Kindergarten. She isn't socially ready, I should say. She listens to directions very well (in fact, her preschool teacher has said that she gets really uncomfortable when other kids don't follow the rules) and is very well mannered. But, she's very shy. Next year she'll go to Kindergarten, and I think she will be ready then.
My best friend is a Kindergarten teacher and has said before that a kid might be ready for Kindergarten because they are smart... but if they are not socially ready, or not able to follow directions, that's a huge thing that needs to be worked out. Obviously, all Kindergartens have a hard time in the beginning (especially if they haven't gone to preschool) but, if this kid is constantly hitting, biting, etc...you can bet that the Kindergarten teacher will be emailing your friend everyday for bad behavior.
my sister is the same way with her son.. and he is only 3.
Basically, he is a miserable mean little brat.. and she thinks he is perfect and all the other children are naughty.
I want to talk to her about it.. but I know she will not want to see the way things are. She is doing a lot of guilt parenting (its a long story) and he is just going to get worse.
So i cant wait to see what other advice is given on here..
This sounds more of a behavior issue than a development issue, you didn't specify that in your post but it appeared to sound like you are leaning towards developmental.
He sounds SPOILED and Lacking discipline. It's a momma and dad issue here and THAT is touchy because you are stepping into the territory of how they raise their children.
My sister has three children two of which tend to be VERY bad, and she once punished me for punishing them (she told me I could no longer spend time with them). It was really insane and in my opinion she was out of line for that, my nephew was burning on the burner and putting his hand on it after he turned it on.. I told him to sit on the couch and I explained to him it was not safe etc and he started FREAKING OUT kicking, and I then told him he needed to apologize for kicking me, my sister then intervened and coddled him as if it was all entirely my fault.
I never once mentioned her parenting of lack there of because it was clear if I did she would snap so I just don't take my nephews anywhere and spend much more time with my niece.
It is not a battle I am willing to fight as I do not ever want to lose the time I have with them especially my niece.
On the flip side, it is your house, your rules.
Just tread carefully.
i think the only thing you need to talk about is your concern that he's kicking your little 2 year old repeatedly and on separate occasions. just ask that mom talks to her kid about this issue here in a way that makes sure it never happens again.
but don't worry about it too much. i think kindergarten and the teacher will help set the kid straight - since he's going next year, i think it's better not to put a strain on your friendship over issue(s) i'm sure the teacher will promptly bring up to his mom.
I was enrolled in kindergarten 2 months before I turned 5, after being interviewed and observed by school psychologists and the school nurse to make sure I was emotionally and socially ready, as I was so close to the cut off and could have waited for the following year. Hopefully, the district she is considering enrolling her son in has similar procedures. Can you even enroll in kindergarten this late in the year? Most likely, she'll end up having to wait until next year anyway. If behavior problems continue, it will be up to your friend and her son's teachers to deal with it. His behavior in your house is absolutely your business - his behavior in school, or when he is enrolled in school...not so much.
Also, as a certified teacher, just because her son is smart does not mean he should be encouraged to not pay attention and act bored in school. I hope she works on his behavior and listening skills before sending him to school. She needs to encourage him to listen to his teacher and do the work he is given, even if he knows it already. He might be bright and capable, but behavior problems can land a kid in special ed classes just as easily as learning disabilities in some districts.
Guess what? less than a year won't make much of a difference behavior wise. 5 year olds and 6 year olds aren't that much different. My mom is a kindergarten teacher and she sees no difference between that. My mom also thought my sister wasn't ready for school because she was talkative and was active. She was absolutely fine and something set in that she was in school.
Another thing, why isn't he in preschool if he's almost 5? Those settings help children learn to behave in a school setting before they have a full day of preschool.
This sounds a touch catty. I think you should stay out of your friend's business. It's her son, her decision, and even if she is wrong she will just have to learn the hard way. Nothing good will come out of sticking your nose in so keep it out. Seriously, you might be completely right about this, but nothing will come out of this but drama if you tell your friend what you really think. Most moms are like protective rabid cheetahs about their kids.
Keep your own kids safe from the little terror, but in a pleasant non-obvious way so she doesn't catch on.
Hahaha...um also about the biting...my boyfriend of 2 years also bit someone on the ear in pre-school. There were stitches involved....horrible I know. He did turn out to be okay and non-psychopathic though. Mostly ;)
Ive seen some 5 year old kids biting, which isn't good still just because it can be common. Parents just need to teach their kids what is right from wrong. But it sounds like she isn't really doing anything about that... But kicking a 2 year old? Now thats messed up and his parents NEED to do something about that.. 2 is still a baby..
If she thinks he's developmentally ready for kindergarten now, why doesn't she homeschool him? She'll need to follow state regulations on that, of course. But if she's just wanting him to go to kindergarten just because she can't handle his behavior, that's not right. It'll just mean that his teacher will be responsible for sorting out the bad behavior. I agree with them, there's something more going on here. My friend had a son who acted just like that. She found out that he had a wheat allergy that was effecting his behavior. When she changed his diet, he was an entirely different person. I'm not saying that is what's wrong with your friend's son, just an example. Making excuses for her son's behavior based on the father's behavior, I'm guessing that there might also be some underlying issues at home.
I would definitely have a talk with her about her son's behavior since you're her friend, because she definitely doesn't want to get slapped with a law-suit from another child's parent. And I'd make sure to tell her that while you value her friendship, you have to do what's best for your children. If she can't control her son or doesn't want to take the time to figure out what's going on, you're going to have to either stop your visits, or at least keep them to a minimum. I had to do that to a friend who's dog liked to bite my three year old, until they decided to take measures against it. We still have trouble going over there because of the dog, even though they try to keep it penned up away from the kids, my daughter is still afraid of it. You don't want your children growing up being afraid of her children, just for the sake of a friendship. If she's truly your friend, she'll understand that your kids come first.
I think just do what's natural...spend less time with this kid if you don't like him or he has behavior problems. That's a natural consequence that doesn't need explaining.
@haltija@xanga - Do you really think that the teacher should be responsible for teaching a child how to behave appropriately (i.e. no hitting, kicking, spitting, biting, no yelling incoherently because he didn't get his way)? Those lessons are to be learned at home and from parents, not in a classroom. Even if a teacher WAS to bring that up to a parent, the faster the issue is dealt with the less of a repercussion it will have. Plus, how embarrassing. I'd rather be told by a friend than a teacher that my child was ill behaved.
It seems, from this post and the words written nearly exactly, that this mother is quick to point out issues in other people's children, but more willing to make excuses for her child rather than to tackle the problem head on. I get that every mother wants to protect their children, but being blind to their issues is another problem completely. Does she realize there are issues? I think that's what the poster wants the mother of the boy to realize. There ARE issues.
And who whichever posters that said that this wasn't her business, if her child/family is being directly affected by it, then yes..it is her business.
Sounds like maybe he's acting out because of the parents, since "the father never apologizes." Not that I know anything about their family, but it just seemed significant that that would be mentioned in this post.
Im in the process of getting an ECE bachelors degree and emotional problems make or break a child. I just finished observing a Kindergarten classroom and the main teacher seemed to worry most about the few children who were developmentally immature. They mostly trace the ABCs, begining and ending sounds, rhyming, coloring pictures by letter (N is blue, n is red, reviel the hidden picture), doing the morning calender, and participation. There is a lot of sitting at the table, not conflicting with fellow students, learning the Word Wall, and doing their classwork. So your child needs to be able to sit at their table, do their work, and participate in the group. I am glad my daughter's birthday is after the cutt off because she can use some extra time to polish her skills. My daughter has a princess table with chairs where she plays with toys so maybe that will get her to sit down for longer periods of time.
I would just tell your friend that you dont want your child to learn bad habbits and give them a "deadline" when you will continue to bring your kid over. If the boy doesnt get better, I would keep the playdates with other friend's kids.
It is annoying to have friends who think their kid is perfect. It doesn't do their kids any good either.
For your child's sake, don't allow that child to play with him and tell your friend very specifically why. It is in your own child's best interest for him not to play with the kid both physically, emotionally and behaviorally. His bullying can rub off on your child if he's exposed to it often.
As far as the school thing goes, don't bring that up with her. It's the school's decision ultimately and they will know whether or not the child is ready no matter what your friend may want.
Sounds like he has Aspergers >_>
@armsraceofsound@xanga - I disagree, her friend's kid is being disrespectful in HER HOUSE and hurting HER SON. She shouldn't mind her own business when it comes to her family.
@TiPrometto@xanga - if it's going to put a big stress on your friendship & they're going to hear it anyways... yes. if you are the kind of friend who'd rather hear it from a friend, that's one thing.. but if you're the type of parent who'd be upset to hear it, it changes things a bit. but i don't have kids so who knows, my perspective isn't as valuable.
I am slightly annoyed with the amount of people on here that are saying that the offending child is spoiled. Has no one taken a moment to think that maybe the kid actually has something wrong with him?
My son is 4, and we have known from the moment he was born that he would have ADHD. Sure enough, he started preschool this year and is just unmanageable. We are firm, forceful parents and we do not let our child run and jump, hit and bite. But sometimes it just happens! He gets punished, and it still happens. The yelling loudly and demanding milk? The advanced development? All of his actions that are described are obvious markers of ADHD that lies on the impulsive side of the spectrum. My son is 4, he has impulsive ADHD.
Maybe instead of simply pointing out what you think she is doing wrong, perhaps try to find a way to nudge her that he might have an issue. I think you do not live with your friend, and you do now know how stressed she is about it.
hmm. awkward situation.
i suppose it depends how you think the mother of the other child would take what you had to say..
maybe speak to her and explain how you feel.