Monday, 30 May 2011

  • Not Going to College

    My parents didn't really mind if I went to college or not. They didn't go themselves: my dad went to a trade high school and my mom eventually got a associates degree, so I guess they figured if I didn't go it wouldn't be a big deal.

    I really did want to go, however, and they didn't stop me and helped me as much as I could.

    Now I have two little sisters, ages 11 and 8. You would think in this day and age, and with their older sister in college, they would automatically just want to go. But they don't, and even at this young age they're asking things like "Do I really need to go to college? What jobs can I get if I don't go to college?"

    I mean, I guess I like how they're asking about jobs, so they're not just expecting to find a man with money and get by that way, but I still find it a bit odd neither of them really want to go to college.

    I know they're still young, and minds change, but when I was little college was just never a question in my mind. I wanted to go because I wanted to get all the school I could.

    Do you think it's bad that they have no interest in going, even at this young age where they're free to dream about whatever they want?

Comments (53)

  • Grtt@xanga

    I don't think it's bad at their ages. They don't know enough about how the world works to know the importance of a college diploma in today's job market. Once they get to the graduating high school phase, when all their friends start applying for/going off to college, they'll probably change their minds, if not for the value of their own education then for wanting to do the same thing as all their friends. Peer pressure is a bitch. Though even if they don't change their minds, it's not the end of the world. People survive without diplomas, they just have to be a little more ...creative and willing to work a lot harder.

  • KnightInCROATIANarmor@xanga

    You need to think of it from a different point of view - mine. I never wanted to go to high school either but I ended up goin anyway. After that I didn't go to college and I still have no intention of doing so - it's been 5 years since I finished high school. I figured I gave school 12 years of my life I don't need any more of the torture that goes on in that institution. All the late nights finishing assignments, all the homework they give you - which I never bothered to do.


    Your kids still have chance to change their minds and they most likely will. Just keep college in their minds as a good thing and try not to bother them to death about going to college.
  • LupusInvictus@xanga

    College is not in everyone's "dreams" just like certain jobs aren't in everyone's "dreams."

  • xa06@xanga

    I would disown my future kids if they refused to go to college. Haha, but seriously. Basically, education is held with such high value in my family that everyone who has the slightest margin of opportunity to go to school must. We're all just hardwired that way, I suppose. There was never a moment in my life when I actually considered not going to college; it was simply an expectation that I did. 

  • bmillerssailor@xanga

    College is something that is pretty much necessary to get a high paying job now-a-days; however, now even college isn't getting people jobs. I have many friends who have graduated the past 3 years and can't find any work. If they don't want to go to college, then they don't go to college. The WORST thing you could do is berate them and make life harder on them than it will already be without a college education. Instead, make sure they know that there are trade school and training programs. Make sure they know that earning a living will be significantly harder working at a grocery store or a pizza joint for the rest of their lives. Support them by educating them on how to not got to college and still make something of yourself (like MANY people do).

  • TheFashionableEconomist@xanga

    i've always wanted to go and now I'm a senior thinking about graduate school :)

  • StatelessPilot@revelife

    Nothing wrong with not going to college. I personally regret going. Essentially, I wasted nearly six years of my life in a field I won't be making a career in. My undergrad degree and the little bit of graduate work I did has absolutely no marginal utility to me, and at least $70K worth of marginal cost when you figure in student loans and lost income during those years. It was not a smart decision for me. 

    There's more than just the cost of tuition and stuff you have to figure in. There's also lost wages, lost interest, among many other things. I've used this scenario several times before, and many of you have seen it, but I'll repost here because it rings so true, and it really shows that if you're just talking financially, that college is not a smart move: 


    Consider two childhood friends, Ernie and Bill. Hard workers with helpful families, each saves exactly $16,594 for college. Ernie doesn't get accepted to a school he likes. Instead, he starts work at 18 and invests his college savings in a mutual fund that tracks the broad stock market.


    Throughout his life, he makes average yearly pay for a high school graduate with no college, starting at $15,901 after taxes and peaking at $32,538. Each month, he adds to his stock fund 5% of his after-tax income, close to the nation's current savings rate. It returns 8% a year, typical for stock investors.


    Bill has a typical college experience. He gets into a public college and after two years transfers to a private one. He spends $49,286 on tuition and required fees, the average for such a track. I'm not counting room and board, since Bill must pay for his keep whether he goes to college or not. Bill gets average-size grants, adjusted for average probabilities of receiving them, and so pays $34,044 for college.


    He leaves school with an average-size student loan and a good interest rate: $17,450 at 5%. The $16,594 he has saved for college, you see, is precisely enough to pay what his loans don't cover.


    Bill will have higher pay than Ernie his whole life, starting at $23,505 after taxes and peaking at $56,808. Like Ernie, he sets aside 5%. At that rate, it will take him 12 years to pay off his loan. Debt-free at 34, he starts adding to the same index fund as Ernie, making bigger monthly contributions with his higher pay. But when the two reunite at 65 for a retirement party, Ernie will have grown his savings to nearly $1.3 million. Bill will have less than a third of that.


    For the reason as to why this is, I'll refer you to the full article

    Not to mention, how much do students actually learn? From what I understand, studies show that students don't really grow that much in college, and most of them are lousy students who only get through due to ridiculous grade inflation. Having taught college for awhile, I can confirm this result. If I'd have given my classes the grades they deserved, about 3/4 would have wound up with Ds or Fs. However, what they aren't telling you is that you can't fail more than a certain percentage of your class, so when I took this into account, I wound up cutting Cs off in the 55% range in most sections (+/- 3 percentage points, roughly). It's absolutely disgusting, and don't go blaming me either. Students failing is the students' fault. Teachers have nothing to do with it. 

    So though a college degree will net you a higher paycheck in the long run, it's not enough to balance out what you lose during those 4 (or more) years. The only way college is really worth it in the end is if you're going into a field that pays 6-figures (medicine, engineering, etc.), but realistically, a vast majority of people pick worthless, frivolous majors such as English, Mathematics, Political Science, etc., so those cases are the exception rather than the norm. So for most people, college is not a smart financial move.

    As I said, I regret going, and in all honesty, I'm seriously considering having my degree revoked, because it's not helping me advance my aviation career at all, and it won't ever. It was a worthless, frivolous endeavor and I'll never forgive myself for pursuing it. 
  • Conflicted_Psyche@xanga

    Probably at that age, school is not as fun as it used to be. Nap time is a thing of the past at that point after all. They still have recess to look forward to but school is starting to get more serious. So maybe the thought of having to do that much school is daunting. I don't think its necessarily a bad thing right now. 

  • Katja88@xanga

    I think that college is important, but it's a conclusion people have to come to themselves.  Ask the girls what they want to be when they grow up.  When they're a little older, ask them again and have them look up what kind of experience they need (be it college or not) to start in that career.  It'll be easier to figure out whether or not to focus on college if they have a goal in mind.

  • snarkius@xanga

    @StatelessPilot@revelife - That example is precisely why if I have to choose between enrolling for classes in a given semester or putting money into our retirement account, I choose to ditch college every time. 


    It's working out pretty well so far. 

  • doubleyoujaydee@xanga

    There's nothing wrong with not going to college, and there's definitely nothing wrong with waiting to go. When I first started college, I didn't do nearly as well as I had in high school because I just really, really didn't want to be there. I wasn't sure yet of what I wanted to do for work. So I basically  squandered thousands of dollars of scholarship money being unhappy and, as a result, not trying to do well. Now I do know what I want to do, and I'm doing quite well in school as a result. Instead of encouraging them to go to college (something they don't seem to want to do anyway), I would encourage them to explore their true passions and find out what kind of work suits them.

  • NikBv@xanga

    @StatelessPilot@revelife - I agree with you. In a lot of situations, going to university just isn't worth it. Higher education is often too expensive, and does too little for you. 

  • StatelessPilot@revelife

    @NikBv@xanga - As it is, I'm going to be shelling out more than enough for flight school anyway. Professional flight school costs an average of around $100K-$150K depending on where you go. It's ridiculous. 

  • Melissa___Dawn@xanga

    Almost of all my friends went to college, most of them graduated, one of them eventually ended up with 2 degrees.  I spent $850 on Vo-Tech and I make more money than all but one friend who went to college, and the friend who makes more than me is not the one with 2 degrees.  I did get to do one semester of college straight after high school, before the money ran out.  I didn't know what I wanted to do at that point, but I knew for certain that the classes I had to take weren't going to be of any help finding a job in the real world.  

  • skinnydragon12@xanga

    @xa06@xanga - My family is this way as well.  Even more than that, my sister and I are expected to go to graduate school after college.  My father is an optometrist and my mother a psychologist, and as they both went we are expected to go as well.  While college was never a question in my mind, I will be a senior in college this upcoming fall and I don't know exactly how committed I am to going on after.  My mom seems ok with it, but my dad is outraged that I would even suggest that I not go to graduate school or, god forbid, take a gap year.

  • PervyPenguin@xanga

    College is good if you want a career, but if you're going to go just for the sake of going it's not a good idea. If anything, it's a waste of money.

    University = Good if you want a professional career like in business or in a type of science.

    Community college = good if you want a job in a trade, like an electrician, plumber or a programmer.

    College isn't for everyone.

  • Dreamgurl16x@xanga

    yup, it's different in my family. I'm from Peru and lets just say, college is like high school over there. Something that everyone does, you must do it. You have to do it. no question about it. It's like high school. There's is no maybe or is it necessary??... Over there, if you ask any person, they most likely has a degree. In  US , its exactly the opposite , its sad :(
    But then my mother was a doctor and my father and engineer, so it depends on what kind of background you come from??,....
    You can't exactly compare parents that were high school drop outs and parents that have really high expectations.

  • Pcgecko85@xanga

    I say this a lot... it all depends on what you want.  If your goals involve going to college then go to college. If not then follow your dreams elsewhere.  I always wanted to be in the tech industry so college was the way to go.  Now it's time to save up for a house and then that BMW I keep seeing ads for here on Xanga, haha.

  • T0m03@xanga

    There are a lot of factors that go into how a person feels about furthering their education such as parental guidance. If your parents didn't instill in them the importance of obtaining a college degree, they have to come to the conclusion that it's not important unless they find some other source that can convince them otherwise. 

  • leanazomg@xanga

    It really all depends on what you want to do with your life, and if you feel you have the ability to climb into higher up positions in your place of work. If you want to start out at Best Buy as a Cashier, and climb up into management, hell - who needs college? But if you want to own a business, be a doctor, be a musician...well, yeah. College is the way to go.

    Also, about the article saying that the person who didn't end up going to college made more money than his friend who did, it doesn't apply to everyone. One, I know it may seem insane, but not everyone has student loans. There are things called scholarships, and in my case, extremely loving parents who are willing to foot the bill for my schooling. I hardly know ANYONE (literally 2 or 3 people) who are paying themselves through college with no help whatsoever from their family. I will be graduating debt free, with a hefty trust-fund, and hopefully with a well-paying job once all is said and done. My ex-boyfriend who decided to not go to college and stay at home and play WoW all day? Maybe might start working part-time at Subway in the near future? I'm pretty sure I'm going to be more successful than him in the long run. Or all the other kids in my school (which aren't many) who decided they wanted to spend the rest of their lives waiting tables and flipping burgers. I know this isn't the case for many many people and I'm extremely blessed to have my parents who believe my education is their responsibility, but it is the case for a good portion of people, or at least have some kind of assistance from a loved one or have scholarships to help pay the bills.

    I also came from a family where it was instilled in my and my older brothers that college wasn't a choice - it was going to happen someway somehow. I also grew up in a community where the graduation rate at my high school (my senior class was about 650 kids) was 97% and 95% of those graduating went on to further their education immediately. I just wasn't raised by my parents or by my peers to think that not going to college was an option. It was going to happen.

  • Digital_Angel21@xanga

    College is a necessity for a lot of things, but not everything. If someone wants to get into something that wouldn't necessarily require them to go to college, I still would recommend it if they can afford it and just do a liberal arts degree with a business minor. The only reason I didn't do that was because I want to be a public accountant and that requires very specific coursework, just like if you were trying to be an engineer or actuary, or you were in med/law school to become a doctor/lawyer.

    @leanazomg@xanga - You are kind of an example of what I am talking about. You come from a family that can afford to send you to college, therefore just to make yourself a more educated, well-rounded person is reason alone to go, beyond staying competitive in the job market.

    Also, if these same siblings are wishy washy when they are older and graduating high school, tell them to go to community college (unless money is a non issue). I hate seeing confused 20-somethings sitting in a big university and it's their 5th year and they still have no idea what they want to do.

    @StatelessPilot@revelife -
    In your scenario, though, you assume Ernie knows what he is doing at 18
    when it comes to investing. Unfortunately, a lot of people aren't
    driven enough to learn about that stuff at 18. Which is a shame, because
    I honestly don't think you need college to become a good investor, you
    just need to be good at the teaching yourself.

  • StatelessPilot@revelife
    @Digital_Angel21@xanga - I think that's a fair criticism and you do have a point. Luckily my mother taught me about such things from a young age, and I had a great economics teacher in high school, so I knew about that stuff.


    As it is though, I wound up with a BS in math and completed some graduate work in math, with research focus in Numerical Analysis. What did I end up as? An airline pilot and a dance instructor, so that tells you how much I'll be using my degree, LOL!
  • Digital_Angel21@xanga

    @StatelessPilot@revelife - I have a lot of peers I meet in various liberal arts classes that tell me I'm "smart" for majoring in accounting because it's a very practical career path (I just do it because I love it. Doing financial statements and taxes is sooo fun once I got the hang of it). But too many people major in it because it's practical, and then by the time their 30, can't take it, and end up doing something else.

  • Liquid_Pain_523@xanga

    Not really. A lot of kids at that age don't even want to go to high school. My advise to them would be to try to get a good idea of what they want to do with their lives, then decide if they need college to realize those dreams. However, if they don't know what they want to do, and they don't know by the time they graduate high school, college can be a good way (albeit a very expensive way) to figure that out.

  • articulate_silence@xanga

    When I was a kid and all my friends would talk about what they wanted to be when they grew up, I had no idea what I wanted to be and was convinced I would just die before college. My mindset has uh obviously changed a little lol XD I don't think its bad that they think that way at a young age. Just provide them with what they need to know about what their options are if they do or don't go to college and they'll make that decision on their own :)

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