Thursday, 13 January 2011
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Timeouts Before Two Years Old?
Hannah (22 months) has suddenly become a very strong-willed child. (Imagine that.) The other morning she must have woken up on the wrong side of the bed or perhaps she didn't sleep well. All I know is that she was a terror all day long. I was pulling my hair out when it suddenly occurred to me that I have no established discipline plan for her yet because I just didn't think she was old enough.
Now I think perhaps I waited too long.
Our biggest challenge right now is throwing things. More like CHUCKING things, especially entire bowls of food, sippy cups, crayons, or small toys like blocks. And she chucks them HARD, usually at people. I had been immediately taking the item away from her, but she immediately throws something else, and then taunts me, "Don't throw! Don't throw! DON'T THROW!" What's confusing about punishing her for this behavior is that I don't have a problem with throwing, per se. I have a problem with *what* she is throwing. So I've changed my tactic to be very specific about what we don't throw: "Hannah, we don't throw food" while immediately taking the item away from her.
But she doesn't listen. How shocking.
Enter the timeout. Now, I firmly believe that every child needs their own form of discipline. For some kids, just giving them "the look" will stop them in their tracks, but Hannah isn't like that. So this is what I've been experimenting with.
I've read that I'm supposed to explain what a timeout is to Hannah before enforcing one, but I personally didn't see the point. She wouldn't get it until I just had to do it. So after throwing a crayon, I said, "Hannah, we don't throw crayons or timeout." Very short and direct. She threw another crayon. "We don't throw crayons. Timeout, Hannah." I quickly scooped away her crayons, then took her to the bottom stair and sat down next to her, setting the timer for 60 seconds. "We don't throw crayons. This is a timeout, because we don't throw crayons."
I admit that I had to hold the bottom of her pants to keep her butt on the stair. And boy, she was furious with me! I did not talk to her for the remainder of the time, but just sat next to her and held her pants to the stair.
Now some people might object here, especially because I was physically restraining her on that stair. Some websites that I've read said that a timeout should be a learning experience, not a punishment. They suggest separating a child Hannah's age from the activity and distracting them with another.
My question is, how is that not rewarding unacceptable behavior? I agree that a timeout should be a learning experience, but I also think it *should* be a punishment. They are not meant to be enjoyable. I want Hannah to learn that unacceptable behavior has unpleasant consequences.
At the end of 60 seconds, I said one more time, "We don't throw crayons. Say you're sorry." She pitifully whimpered, "Sorry, Mama." Then I gave her a big hug and a kiss and told her how much I loved her, and we went right back to playing happily as if nothing happened. Perhaps an hour later, she started throwing something else. She got one warning, "Hannah, we don't throw ____ or timeout." She threw it again, so we had another timeout (and once again, she was furious about it).
(Sidenote: I don't plan to sit on the stair with her forever, but at this point, she would immediately get up and run away, which would lead to a game of tag, which she thinks is just hilarious, so she would immediately forget what she was in trouble for. She's just not ready to sit on the stair alone. I also want her to learn to specifically say *what* she's sorry for, but these are things I hope to build up to. She's not even two years old yet, for Pete's sake.)
Now perhaps I'm jumping the gun, but I am very pleased with the results so far. After just two timeouts, the next time she threw something, I gave her the warning about a timeout. Her eyes got big and she asked, "Timeout?" and immediately stopped throwing whatever it was she was throwing. It's been a few days now and I've had to give plenty of warnings, but no more timeouts because she's stopped throwing every single time.
How about you, Mamas? What has worked (or hasn't worked) for disciplining your kids, especially before the age of two?
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- From: mevlink@xanga
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Comments (25)
as much as i'll probably get grilled for it, i had to shut my son in his room as a timeout. i hated it, but it's the only way that worked with him. it was impossible to get him to sit still, i couldn't even hold him down by the pants like you did. he was too strong and angry. before he turned 2 we had an incident where he purposely dumped out his cereal (no milk) on the floor. i asked him to pick it up and he refused. he sat down and asked for the tv and i had to tell him no tv until he picked up his mess. anyways it turned into a big deal and he got really upset and i ended up telling him if he didn't pick up his mess he was going to his room. so he went to his room for about a minute, i let him out and asked if he was gonna pick it up and he said no. so he went back into his room and screamed and threw a fit. about a minute later i let him out again and he went straight into the the living room and picked up his entire mess. so whether or not moms agree with how i did it, it worked. we haven't had a problem with him and picking things up since. good luck momma :) i agree that timeout should be punishment.
I've started time outs around 18 months for my kids.. I think your method is just fine. Because the younger ones see the older ones get time outs, they know what they need to do... it's so funny to see a tiny toddler facing the wall just standing there.. but that's what they know they have to do cause they've seen their older siblings do it.
So for your first one, I can see there would be some restraining going on... I barely remember time outs with my first until she was a little older.. probably because it was too exhausting sometimes. So if you can keep up on it, and she is learning from it- good for you!I did the same thing you did, but I did not have to start time outs until our little guy was 2.5yrs.
If I caught him starting to throw something, I would take his hand, remove the object, gently and firmly say "we do not throw things in our house." (the same thing worked when he started hitting) and redirected him.
I do have a little problem with using bedrooms for time outs.. but this has been because we are foster parents and know some kids who have spent days locked in their rooms. Plus we do not want our little ones to see their bedrooms as a place of punishment, we want them to want to go to bed.. So time outs are done on a chair, and we do not turn them to face the wall or a corner.. which makes it worse because they have to see the other kids having fun.
Sounds like you are doing a great job to me!
And if you think this age is fun, wait until 3 comes. Its even better!
We started time outs when our kids hit one. I know it seems early, but let me tell you, they get it. Of course, it's 60 seconds and we are usually sitting with them in the corner, but it starts them early! Both of our kids have had one incident which dragged out for nearly an hour (both involving picking up a huge mess they made) where we take them to time out, then let them out and tell them to pick up their mess, fit ensues, back to the corner, etc. Repeat for an hour. It's exhausting, but the next time the issue comes up, there is obedience.
With my older one, time outs worked great. With my younger one, he thinks time outs are a privilege because his older brother gets them. He'll even run to time out when I send the older one to time out because he thinks it's funny! With him he is more likely to get a light swat on the butt (the well-padded diaper butt, and when I say light swat, I mean so light that even without the padding he wouldn't be hurt). The light swat totally works because he is horribly offended that we would do such a thing to him. He cries, but later when he is being disobedient (like running away or pinching, etc.) all we have to say is, "Aaron, do you need a swat?" and he shakes his head no and stops.
Whatever works with each child is what a parent should do. It's either that or we will go crazy and our kids will have no discipline!
my son is also 22 months and i need to work on giving him something for things that are a no-no.
@beebizzle@xanga - That's actually how my in-laws punished my husband and it worked really well for him too. That wouldn't have worked for me because I loved my bedroom and always had plenty to do to distract myself. Plus, it was a safe haven for me, so I wouldn't want to turn my kid's safe haven into an area of punishment. But for my hubby, the bedroom was pretty much for sleeping and sleeping only, so to be sent to his room was the perfect punishment because he had no choice but to just sit there and reflect on what he did, or take a nap, which usually meant he'd wake up in a more cooperative mood anyway. Like I said, you have to figure out what works for YOUR child, and if the bedroom works for your son, go for it!
@careegroup@xanga - Exactly, each child needs his or her own punishment, as "unfair" as that sounds sometimes. As a kid, my husband always got a firm spanking (and he deserved it too), but his brother just needed to get "the look" from mommy and he'd burst into a puddle of tears, so he was rarely spanked or put in timeout, because it would have been too severe for him. I'm glad the timeouts have been working for my Hannah, or else she'd be getting a swat on her diapered behind as well. Some anti-spanking people might get up in arms, but I firmly believe that *some* kids won't respond to anything else. It sounds like Aaron is probably one of them.
@LadyGwenivere@xanga - One of my friends suggested that the bottom stair was not a good place for a timeout because she could still see all of her toys and she could still see me, but I don't have a problem with that, just like you said! The rule is that her butt can't leave the stair or the timeout will start over. I think that being able to see the toys and everyone else having fun just reinforces the lesson even more!
@mevlink@xanga - totally agree with you on that.. And I want to add that i think its awesome that you recognize that children are not cookie-cutter and what works for one might not work for another.
I hear you! My daughter was notorious for throwing sippy cups, utencils and food, about that age. I always just took whatever it was away and, now that she's 2.5, she doesn't do that anymore.
I also had to hold her in timeout, like you're doing. I don't do it anymore, now that she's older, so I think that's perfectly fine.
The only thing I can't stand, is how loud my daughter screams when she's in time out. It's so bad, I think the neighbors will think she's hurt or in danger and call 911. She's sooooo loud! It drives me so crazy and it takes every shred of strength I have not to yell or get too impatient. Ugh. And I hear it's only going to get better the older she gets! lol
I think if she has figured it out then it was a "learning" experience. Punishments in and of themselves are learning experiences. The child learns when I do x behavior then I am made to do something I don't like such as being made to sit on the stair instead of coloring. I think when they are much younger distraction is acceptable because they don't truly understand what you are talking about. At her age she does understand and has learned from the timeout. My son is 2 and we have started using time outs. We use it especially when he is throwing a fit. He has learned that not only does he not care for it but he doesn't get the attention he was looking for. The biggest thing is to remember to be consistent and don't threaten anything you have no intention on following through on. I learned those the hard way with my first child.
@mevlink@xanga - Agreed, I'm not exactly anti spanking... But I only spank in my daughter does something were she can hurt her self or some one else... like say she reaches to stick her finger in the socket... or she runs for the street. I spank her to show her it's going to hurt so don't do it. you see how that felt... that's what you just made them feel.
Other wise it's time out. I feel like spanking is often times parents trying to show their children how to have patience while showing them they have non them selves.
15m I started time out's and the first two were so hard after that I just had to give her the count of five to calm down or time out... Most of the time all I had to do was clearly explain and she would say sorry and follow directions. Now that she's 2 1/2 she is a crazy demanding little girl who get's put in time out at least once a day... She only get's like this in front of family...
Thank you so much for posting this. Currently I have a 15month old. Overall he is an amazing child as to the point everyone is amazing how well he can entertain himself and what not. However when he has his fits (because he does no matter what any one else is amazed by) Ive just been stumped how to handel them. Its as little as grabbing the remotes to pressing the buttons on the dishwasher to more dangerous of climbing on the couch to the point he could get hurt and trying to play with outlets (which we dont allow climbing and we have the house babyproofed but he plays with the airfreshners or the vaccume cord. Ive started to put him in his crib for a time out, light on and door open as well as telling him why he is going in there. I leave him in there for about a minute or two depending on his screaming/crying. (If he is screaming bloody murder I wait until he calms down). When I get him out I tell him why I put him in there and that I love him and things get better. I just dont know that since he is so young if he fully understands since I dont believe he fully understands "no" and "stop". This helped me feel more confident =)
It makes sense to me. I learned in intro psychology that you can't spoil an infant, but that never really made sense to me. After all, we had also recently learned about the idea of classical conditioning and Pavlov's experiment. If you can classically condition a dog, then I would hope you can also do it with a child. The child doesn't necessarily have to know why you did something right away, just that their actions have consequences. You can explain the why later in their life.
@Liquid_Pain_523@xanga - I think it's true that you can't spoil an INFANT (less than a year old), but a toddler is a whole 'nother ballgame, lol. And toddlers are a lot like dogs, at least in the sense that they think that bad attention is better than no attention. I think that's exactly why a timeout works!
@BShennel@xanga - Has that negatively affected his sleeping habits by putting him in his crib for a timeout? I was too nervous about that to use the crib, but I love the idea of having my toddler contained somewhere, lol. One of my friend's doctors suggested using a playpen with no toys for timeouts after the age of 1 but before he was old enough to understand a "traditional" timeout. But if his sleep isn't affected, then I say do what works! My husband was always sent to his bedroom and had to sit on his bed when he was really young. It forced him to calm down, or if he did randomly take a nap, he usually woke up in a better mood, so it just worked for him. At 15 months, the crib probably works great to help your son calm down!
I think parents need to make sure they are actively giving their child day-to-day guidance. Instruction shouldn't require discipline. Discipline is only required when unfavored behavior has been allowed to sit and turn into action. I don't believe kids should have to pay for their parent's lack of parenting and I seem to see that a lot. Because then it becomes a safety issue.
All I am saying is make sure you are actively instructing your child with love. If they are doing something "naughty" it is most likely because they are looking for some kind of thrill or reaction. Be two steps ahead of them (as the adult) have their entertainment and love a proactive availability as opposed to them having to be reactive to neither being available.
@mevlink@xanga - It still doesn't make logical sense to me that you can't spoil an infant. Most organisms' actions can be affected by classical conditioning. Why would human infants be exempt from that?
That is almost exactly how I did it with my daughter, she was probably closer to 18 months though. It worked wonders. She's 25 months and I do the warning and count to 3 now, and I haven't made it past 2 in months. It's such a relief not to have the struggles and tantrums that used to be daily.
@Liquid_Pain_523@xanga - No, you can't spoil an infant if you're talking a very young infant (4 months or younger). Their needs are too primal/basic that you just can't train them or, by default, spoil them. They need to eat when they need to eat, they need to sleep when they need to sleep, and they need to poop when they need to poop, therefore they cry whenever they need to do any of those things, and they won't be "spoiled" just because you responded to those cries. You are just meeting their basic needs. They're too young to realize that you come (or don't come) when they cry (aka, conditioning); they just cry until their needs are met. You can't condition them to do anything different when they are that young.
You're doing wonderfully! Most advocates for time outs usually recommend starting at 1 year old and implementing it exactly the way you're doing. If you stick with it, she'll definitely learn, as you can already see her doing. My nieces and nephews all started getting time outs at 1 year old just the way you are doing it, and they are all very well behaved children. I plan on raising my future children with that method as well. Just remember to increase the time as she gets older. They say the length of time outs should be 1 minute per age of the child (so two minutes for a two year old, 3 for a 3 year old, etc) and the child should sit for the entire length of time. If they get up, the time needs to be restarted. I once saw an episode of Supernanny where a little girl kept getting up and running away from her time out spot, and it took over two hours of grabbing her and sitting her back down every time to get her to sit for the full 4 or 5 minutes she needed to sit for. But sometimes its necessary to do that in order to show the child that you will not back down and they will not get away with it. Keep it up!
My daughter just turned one year old and I have implemented the time out system. I give a warning, explain what time out is and afterwards reiterate why we had time out and bc she is to little to say sorry, we have hugs and kisses and start a new activity. She has no idea what the explanation is about but I don't skip it b/c I believe she will gradually start to infer the meaning of what I am saying. She doesn't always comprehend the first time why she is in timeout but if she goes back to timeout for the same thing twice in one day she def modifies her behavior. I have found it to be very effective. I got spankings when I was little and I have swatted her on her diapered bottom before but that only leads to frustration and the situation escalates with a lot of drama. She seems offended about being even lightly spanked. Of course she is unhappy about timeout but 9 times out of 10 stops crying before timeout is over. I actually have her in timeout for two mins to give her that chance to calm down. Good luck with your timeouts, I have not even seen them fail when done properly and it sounds like you are doing it right :)
He has high levels of anxiety and stress. I had the same thing when I was little because my parents started spanking me too soon. They were spanking me from age 2-5, and I remember when i tried to jump off the balcony because I wanted to hurt myself but my mom caught me. I remember when I was hiding under the bench from my father, and was shaking like an abused dog. What you wrote just seems like a deja vu to me. He's gonna have problems with depression and suicidal tendencies later in life, i can tell you that, and hes going to be ashamed of his body. You fu*ked him up because you started to spank him too soon. I don't even remember why I got spanked, I only remember the pain, the fear, the anxiety, the nightmares i had, the bedwetting....and my parents are good people. Theyre just bad parents. Spanking can't be generalized because it depends on the parents how the child will turn out. You and your husband need to do this together, and speak together. My father was allways distant and cold and they basicly spanked me into obedience. But they did it wrong, they didnt spank me with love and affection, i got my ass thrashed sometimes even blue,purple. never any permanent marks or scars tho. and never any blood, and allways with the hand. But the problem is that parents are frustrated, stressed and angry because their child doesnt listen, when they don't even understand that up until the age of 6 a childs brain isn't even developed enough to be aware of himself. A child's mind is like a sponge, it's an empty piece of paper. And you are the parent, the writer. you write his story, you write how hes gonna feel, how hes gonna behave, and all I can tell you, youre already doing it wrong. Did you read any books on how to discipline children? theres soooo maaany books in the internet how to discipline them, and you don't even have to hit them. It takes time ofc, and patience, but imo spanking is for lazy parents like mine, they didnt even read a book about raising a child they just spanked me and thought it was all gonna work out well. They didnt even spanked me right, i didnt know why i was spanked or what the fu*k the lesson is supposed to be, i just know they broken my spirit and soul to live and i was very obedient up until the age of 14 when all the repressed anger came out and I started using drugs and smoking, drinking etc. And my parents never did anything about it, they knew I was doing it and didnt punish me or anything...maybe coz i had straight a's or something. OOh and thanks to them I'm also a spankophiliac, spanking sexually arouses me very, very much, especially on my bare butt. and Im sadomachistic. I'm 21 years old now, and I wish my parents spanked me from age 13 up until today when I still live with them. Im 21 and I really wish they spanked me so hard, but they won't. and I still dont understand why i got spanked as a child, when i didnt know what I did wrong or why or learn anything but pain,fear and resenment, a broken spirit and no will to live. Why didnt they spank me from 13 and up until today when now, now I would learn something from it because I know why id get it and i would enjoy it anyway, even if the spanking was so hard it would make me cry.
Parent's really can fu*k you up. They don't mean to, but they do.
I know I've been trying to figure out a game plan of action before I get to this point with Kylie (she'll be 13 months tomorrow so I have a little ways to go before the terrible twos...but not much!). I've been very intrigued by the book Love and Logic, I'm about half way through it. I think you should give it a gander. Basically the discipline is giving them two options that they have to think through (Hannah, you can either stop throwing the crayons or we can stop coloring). If she chooses the third, but not mentioned option (throwing the crayon) you stop coloring. It helps children learn that if they break expectations set by parents, there are consequences and it also give you a level of discipline that isn't as harsh as some other options. I'll admit that I could tell that if I were particularly irritable it would be hard for me to be consistent with this type of discipline, but I've been trying it out with Kylie here and there on very minor things and it actually seems to work. I also have been told that Shepherding a Child's Heart is good, though I haven't read that yet. Good luck with this hun!
@skittler335@xanga - We went through Shepherding a Child's Heart in Sunday School at my church, but that was before Hannah (I think) so I don't remember most of it. I should see if I can find my notes, because I REALLY enjoyed it. I like the two choices option, although I've been trying to phrase my commands positively ("Sit down please" instead of "Don't jump on the couch," etc). I could try, "Hannah please color with the crayons or we will be all done coloring" and if she throws them, that's the end of that, but I have a feeling the next warning will be for a timeout. I plan to use them sparingly, but so far it's been the only thing that will get through to her when she's being really obstinate.