I was watching a show tonight it is called "Primetime: What Would You Do?"
The premise of the show is, through hidden cameras, you see how people act in certain situations. (ie. abuse. theft, racism, etc)
For example, the one that I watched last night was what would people do when a waiter appears disgusted and refuses to serve gay parents with two kids?
Here is the part from the show if you were interested
The thing that shocked me from the show was this map
The blue on this map indicates states where it is legal (meaning that there are laws that allow) for a business to deny service to individuals because of sexual orientation.
There are some situations where I understand denying service to an individual, an unruly costumer being one of them. But around half of the United States allow restaurants to deny service due to sexual orientation.
I have always kind of had naive view of the way a business works. Like in a restaurant I always thought that a customer comes in and gets seated, Tthe waiter takes the order, customer eats and pays (also leaves a tip) and leaves. It's kind of the business model for success. Each customer is a dollar amount. The more customers the more money. Refusing service would be denying financial income. Not to mention that if you would refuse service word of mouth might cause others not to come to the business.
From a customer end, I had always thought that if I wanted to go a restaurant that I heard that their chocolate mousse was to die for, I could. I thought that it would not matter what my sexual orientation.
I guess for me, at least, it was a little shocking, when there are times where America seems a little more accepting than that. You know the kind of attitude where people say " I don't care but just don't overly flaunt it in front of me."
California is one of the states that passed legislature to stop things like this from happening.The California Law was Called "The Unruh Civil Rights". This law was enacted in 1959, and was named for the author Jesse M. Unruh.
The California Law States -"All persons within the jurisdiction of this state are free and equal, and no matter what their sex, race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, medical condition, marital status, or sexual orientation are entitled to the full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges, or services in all business establishments of every kind whatsoever."
I guess I am a little torn on the issue. While I would not like to see a business owners beliefs stepped on (I wouldn't want mine stepped on either), I really would not want to see people in my life being denied because of their sexual orientation. If I want to take my friends to the best quality hand made jewelry store I want to be able to take them there. If there is a chef who makes the best food, I want to be able to take them there. Any where I go normally I want my friends and/or family to be able to go to. I want my family and other loved ones to be able to go too. I don't want to have to think about if it is acceptable or not. ' In other words to quote a famous saying "Why can't we just all get along?
Was anybody else shocked by the map? Has anyone experienced a situation were service was denied for something you thought was unjust (does not have to be sexual orientation)?
Just cause the person owns the business shouldn't mean that their personal beliefs come before the people who are patrons of the business.
The map doesn't shock me. There are a lot of things about the U.S. that make me sick.
It saddens me, yet does not shock me. It's one of those things that eventually people will look back on it and wonder how it went on for so long. It will be taught in history along with women voting and slavery. I know that some may not believe gay rights are that far up there-- but I do. When you cannot marry or have the same rights as another due to your sexual orientation, that's wrong. Just as it was wrong to not allow women to vote at one point in time. I wish I could say I could see it ending in the near future, however, I do not. I do hope to see change in my lifetime. If not mine, then my son's. I was taught to respect diversity, and that it was what America was about. The older I become, the more I see that's a wish, and a lie. They say diversity, but shun those that are different. I've experienced it for many, many reasons, and still do.
It's very sad, and it breaks my heart. I do not believe that just because a business owner has a belief that it should be reflected in their shop (unless, of course their shop is focused on one thing. I.E. religious, etc). Eh, now I've rambled. lol
When I was very pregnant with our first, my husband and I were denied service. The host, of a not-very-busy restaurant, said "we don't have a seat. For you." Oooook. I will always believe it was because I'm white and my husband is black - some people still have problems with interracial marriages. How did I handle it? I asked for the manager and suddenly we were seated. If that had not worked, I would have asked for the owner. Then I would have written a letter to the paper and called the local news and so on. Don't mess with a hungry pregnant momma.
Racist moron.
as sad as it is It does not suprise me.
My math teacher aid worked at the local casino in my town. My mom took my grandmother there for lunch, and my grandmother is dietetic. She rarely gets to stay with us. Her and my mother were rejected by my teacher aid. I gave her son glares of doom through his two years in high school with me. My family is Native American and sadly, living to the Native American stereotype, the tribe owns the casino. The math aid was white and didn't seem to like me (probably because when I ask for help I go to the math teacher after she helped me and confused me worse.)
My mom took my grandma home to eat and later on told me about that day. I didn't like her before what she did, and I still don't.
@sarahsmurfette@xanga - I would be pissed. Isn't there a senator or something going around saying it's the establishment owner's right to refuse service to people based on color if they want? I heard something about that this summer. I certainly wouldn't go there again, and I'd make a big scene about it, telling all my friends/family, writing to local papers/news stations, maybe even some big ones like Oprah and other influential people. I'd post it everywhere I could online.
I am Muslim and I was denied a temporary driver license from the Licking County DMV in Newark, OH. It didn't matter that I had lived in Ohio for 14 years and was coming back to Ohio in December 2009 (my husband and I were in Kansas for his Master in Engineering Technology from 2008-2009). The woman refused to listen to me and even called another woman into the mess and they basically beat around the bush, trying to come up with reasons why I couldn't get a temporary driver license. Then when I realized they wouldn't let me, I decided to renew my state ID since it had expired. Well the woman who I originally talked to said and I qoute "You have to take that thing (i.e. my hijab which is a scarf worn by Muslim women that covers their hair, ears, and neck) in order to get your picture taken or else you won't get your state id". So no I'm not really surprised that a resturant would deny someone service based on their sex, sexual orientation, race, national origin or religion.
Um, you realize that if it gets out that a restaurant doesn't serve a particular portion of the population, that word gets around. If people are disgusted by the action, they won't frequent that establishment, and they fold. That is a business model - a business being responsible for their actions (not slapped on the wrist by a bloated gov't - FDA, USDA, EPA, whatever, take your pick). Like just because a town has a small population of radicals in it doesn't mean the rest of the town has the same opinion (my little town had a very widely known racist organization until recently - does that mean my neighbors and I are also racist since we have the same zip code?).
ETA: A bunch of those states shaded in blue? Are less likely to have state gov'ts way, way over their budget, have less laws controlling you if you live in them, and so on. Personal responsibility and all. ;)
Well, with private organizations/businesses they have the right to decide who can and cannot be patrons. We may not agree with their reasons but it's their call. If you don't agree, you can boycott them but that's about it.
@wintersun - I am so sorry you were treated that way! I grew up in Licking County and they certainly have problems with the small town mentality. Hence the reason I moved to Columbus. I can't speak for the temporary drivers license issue (don't know the rules around it) but she certainly could have at least asked you nicely to take off the hijab even if she didn't know what it was called. Keep in mind, most people in that area have lived there their entire lives. They don't know the world outside of their and therefore tend to be closed minded.
It is true that sexual orientation is not a protected class in most states and is certainly is not on a federal level. Technically an employer can not hire someone specifically for that reason. I really do hope this changes soon. We have some very good friends who are gay/lesbian and I would never want them to be hurt like that.
Isn't the purpose of a business to make money? Should they really care who that money is coming from?
Unfortunately, there are more people in this world like those who did not speak up (in the video clip) then there are those who chose to get involved and support the family! I just hope that if my family ever encounters someone treating us this way, that someone will be willing to stand up for us.
Nope, not at all shocked. I know exactly what I would do if I was either one of the people in the restaurant or if I was being kicked out. It is a no brainier, really. I'd leave the establishment immediately, showing my disgust on the way out. I'd stand directly outside the property and let every single person walking in know that they openly discriminate and kick out the patrons. I'd eventually go home and write an open letter to, and call every single newspaper and news station I could think of. They have every right to kick people out but I have every right to let it be known that they are bigots. And it would be known.
Do the blue states have laws written specific towards homosexuals or do they just not have a clause that makes exceptions to homosexuals--thus being able to make the claim that businesses are allowed to discriminate? I thought businesses were allowed to deny service to people they chose regardless of whether the business was staffed by rascist bigots denying people based on their personal preference or level-headed people that deny service to a party that has a large potential to make a scene and disrupt service.
I'm not shocked at all, but I think most people take your stance on business; the more customers, more money. I'm not shocked at all by the map (you can get thrown out of a restaurant for some weird shit in NC), but it's perfectly legal for a private establishment to throw out people. I just wouldn't count on the store / restaurant being there for very long.
I'd be surprised if many restaurants kick people out based on their sexual orientation. Did the map state what kind of businesses discriminated? Or just businesses in general?
I think this is one of those cases in which, no matter what the law may technically permit, the free market kind of takes care of prejudice. We don't often hear of this situation happening in real life because it's not in the business owner's best intrest to discriminate... no matter what they may feel about it. I don't think the discrimination against gay people or gay parents is quite like what African Americans experienced before the civil rights movement. Sure places might deny someone service for one rediculous, awful reason or another, but it's not happening to the extent that we should all rally and "do something" about this injustice. It just seems like we have bigger problems in the world. If you do happen to have an issue with a business's ethics, just don't patronize them and spread the word about why. There are probably plenty of other places who would be happy to take your money.
This one will get sued out relatively soon... probably some court case over public ed with a final ruling that will expand to cover businesses. That said...
My two cents is that Discrimination is the largest black spot on American History... straight from the first Puritans, than Slavery, then the entire post-civil war business and 100 years of unfairness, not to mention the various religious sects. This IS the important issue. This is something that we should all take a stand on, and squash discrimination wherever we see it. There's no excuse... and any we leave lying around sets a very dangerous precedent. I've never had an issue getting seated at a restaurant, but I would call the Better Business Bureau in a heartbeat if I saw something like what is described here.
Though some people want to let the Free Market take care of this, and in theory, it should... history disagrees with that theory. People boycotted and protested against segregated restaurants for dozens of years, and many of those businesses thrived. Nope, this is exactly what a government is made for... equality of opportunity. There should be no place in America where you are not allowed to go because of some circumstance of your birth (race, gender, orientation, handicap, or otherwise).
I'm gay, I live in Texas(one of the shaded states) &I've never been denied service. But, I live right outside Houston, so for the most part, people around here aren't all that conservative. Although, I wasn't allowed to go to my high school prom because of my sexual orientation.
This is really interesting. I am not saying it is right to not let a person to be a patron of your establishment just because you don't like their sexual orientation, but if a person owns a business privately, don't they have the right to serve who they want? I mean, can't they just kick a person out even if they don't like your shirt? I am not up on all the laws, but I guess I thought business owners had the right to refuse service to anyone. But again, if that were the case there would be a lot of places who wouldn't serve blacks or asians or women or whatever the minority might be. I can't imagine a place of business being that hung up on something that they would be willing to lose clientele because of their predjudices. My husband owns a hunting/fishing business, runs a lodge and serves meals to people. In this economy, I'd think you'd take all the business you can get!
In the case of Virginia, there are no laws saying they are allowed to discriminate based on sexual orientation. However, there is a list of "protected classes" which they are absolutely not allowed to discriminate against and homosexuality is not on the list. The state has not passed laws saying, "Go ahead, hate on the gays!" Please, get your facts right.
This is just awful. It makes me thankful that I live in Canada, although it isn't perfect either.
@sojealoussrvs@xanga - Prom is overrated anyhow..you didn't miss anything. I didn't go and I'm not regretting it..lol
Not shocked at all.
@Hinase@xanga - haha, i know. &i heard from my friends who did go that it sucked. :)
@SeeBeeWrite@xanga - Agreed. I'm a little shocked that it's legal in all of those states to deny a person service, but then again, America has denied their right to commit to their significant other through marriage.
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Comments (26)
Just cause the person owns the business shouldn't mean that their personal beliefs come before the people who are patrons of the business.
The map doesn't shock me. There are a lot of things about the U.S. that make me sick.
It saddens me, yet does not shock me. It's one of those things that eventually people will look back on it and wonder how it went on for so long. It will be taught in history along with women voting and slavery. I know that some may not believe gay rights are that far up there-- but I do. When you cannot marry or have the same rights as another due to your sexual orientation, that's wrong. Just as it was wrong to not allow women to vote at one point in time. I wish I could say I could see it ending in the near future, however, I do not. I do hope to see change in my lifetime. If not mine, then my son's. I was taught to respect diversity, and that it was what America was about. The older I become, the more I see that's a wish, and a lie. They say diversity, but shun those that are different. I've experienced it for many, many reasons, and still do.
It's very sad, and it breaks my heart. I do not believe that just because a business owner has a belief that it should be reflected in their shop (unless, of course their shop is focused on one thing. I.E. religious, etc).
Eh, now I've rambled. lol
When I was very pregnant with our first, my husband and I were denied service. The host, of a not-very-busy restaurant, said "we don't have a seat. For you." Oooook. I will always believe it was because I'm white and my husband is black - some people still have problems with interracial marriages. How did I handle it? I asked for the manager and suddenly we were seated. If that had not worked, I would have asked for the owner. Then I would have written a letter to the paper and called the local news and so on. Don't mess with a hungry pregnant momma.
Racist moron.
as sad as it is It does not suprise me.
My math teacher aid worked at the local casino in my town. My mom took my grandmother there for lunch, and my grandmother is dietetic. She rarely gets to stay with us. Her and my mother were rejected by my teacher aid. I gave her son glares of doom through his two years in high school with me. My family is Native American and sadly, living to the Native American stereotype, the tribe owns the casino. The math aid was white and didn't seem to like me (probably because when I ask for help I go to the math teacher after she helped me and confused me worse.)
My mom took my grandma home to eat and later on told me about that day. I didn't like her before what she did, and I still don't.
@sarahsmurfette@xanga - I would be pissed. Isn't there a senator or something going around saying it's the establishment owner's right to refuse service to people based on color if they want? I heard something about that this summer. I certainly wouldn't go there again, and I'd make a big scene about it, telling all my friends/family, writing to local papers/news stations, maybe even some big ones like Oprah and other influential people. I'd post it everywhere I could online.
I am Muslim and I was denied a temporary driver license from the Licking County DMV in Newark, OH. It didn't matter that I had lived in Ohio for 14 years and was coming back to Ohio in December 2009 (my husband and I were in Kansas for his Master in Engineering Technology from 2008-2009). The woman refused to listen to me and even called another woman into the mess and they basically beat around the bush, trying to come up with reasons why I couldn't get a temporary driver license. Then when I realized they wouldn't let me, I decided to renew my state ID since it had expired. Well the woman who I originally talked to said and I qoute "You have to take that thing (i.e. my hijab which is a scarf worn by Muslim women that covers their hair, ears, and neck) in order to get your picture taken or else you won't get your state id". So no I'm not really surprised that a resturant would deny someone service based on their sex, sexual orientation, race, national origin or religion.
Um, you realize that if it gets out that a restaurant doesn't serve a particular portion of the population, that word gets around. If people are disgusted by the action, they won't frequent that establishment, and they fold. That is a business model - a business being responsible for their actions (not slapped on the wrist by a bloated gov't - FDA, USDA, EPA, whatever, take your pick). Like just because a town has a small population of radicals in it doesn't mean the rest of the town has the same opinion (my little town had a very widely known racist organization until recently - does that mean my neighbors and I are also racist since we have the same zip code?).
ETA: A bunch of those states shaded in blue? Are less likely to have state gov'ts way, way over their budget, have less laws controlling you if you live in them, and so on. Personal responsibility and all. ;)
Well, with private organizations/businesses they have the right to decide who can and cannot be patrons. We may not agree with their reasons but it's their call. If you don't agree, you can boycott them but that's about it.
@wintersun - I am so sorry you were treated that way! I grew up in Licking County and they certainly have problems with the small town mentality. Hence the reason I moved to Columbus. I can't speak for the temporary drivers license issue (don't know the rules around it) but she certainly could have at least asked you nicely to take off the hijab even if she didn't know what it was called. Keep in mind, most people in that area have lived there their entire lives. They don't know the world outside of their and therefore tend to be closed minded.
It is true that sexual orientation is not a protected class in most states and is certainly is not on a federal level. Technically an employer can not hire someone specifically for that reason. I really do hope this changes soon. We have some very good friends who are gay/lesbian and I would never want them to be hurt like that.
Isn't the purpose of a business to make money? Should they really care who that money is coming from?
Unfortunately, there are more people in this world like those who did not speak up (in the video clip) then there are those who chose to get involved and support the family! I just hope that if my family ever encounters someone treating us this way, that someone will be willing to stand up for us.
Nope, not at all shocked. I know exactly what I would do if I was either one of the people in the restaurant or if I was being kicked out. It is a no brainier, really. I'd leave the establishment immediately, showing my disgust on the way out. I'd stand directly outside the property and let every single person walking in know that they openly discriminate and kick out the patrons. I'd eventually go home and write an open letter to, and call every single newspaper and news station I could think of. They have every right to kick people out but I have every right to let it be known that they are bigots. And it would be known.
Do the blue states have laws written specific towards homosexuals or do they just not have a clause that makes exceptions to homosexuals--thus being able to make the claim that businesses are allowed to discriminate? I thought businesses were allowed to deny service to people they chose regardless of whether the business was staffed by rascist bigots denying people based on their personal preference or level-headed people that deny service to a party that has a large potential to make a scene and disrupt service.
I'm not shocked at all, but I think most people take your stance on business; the more customers, more money. I'm not shocked at all by the map (you can get thrown out of a restaurant for some weird shit in NC), but it's perfectly legal for a private establishment to throw out people. I just wouldn't count on the store / restaurant being there for very long.
I'd be surprised if many restaurants kick people out based on their sexual orientation. Did the map state what kind of businesses discriminated? Or just businesses in general?
I think this is one of those cases in which, no matter what the law may technically permit, the free market kind of takes care of prejudice. We don't often hear of this situation happening in real life because it's not in the business owner's best intrest to discriminate... no matter what they may feel about it. I don't think the discrimination against gay people or gay parents is quite like what African Americans experienced before the civil rights movement. Sure places might deny someone service for one rediculous, awful reason or another, but it's not happening to the extent that we should all rally and "do something" about this injustice. It just seems like we have bigger problems in the world. If you do happen to have an issue with a business's ethics, just don't patronize them and spread the word about why. There are probably plenty of other places who would be happy to take your money.
This one will get sued out relatively soon... probably some court case over public ed with a final ruling that will expand to cover businesses. That said...
My two cents is that Discrimination is the largest black spot on American History... straight from the first Puritans, than Slavery, then the entire post-civil war business and 100 years of unfairness, not to mention the various religious sects. This IS the important issue. This is something that we should all take a stand on, and squash discrimination wherever we see it. There's no excuse... and any we leave lying around sets a very dangerous precedent. I've never had an issue getting seated at a restaurant, but I would call the Better Business Bureau in a heartbeat if I saw something like what is described here.
Though some people want to let the Free Market take care of this, and in theory, it should... history disagrees with that theory. People boycotted and protested against segregated restaurants for dozens of years, and many of those businesses thrived. Nope, this is exactly what a government is made for... equality of opportunity. There should be no place in America where you are not allowed to go because of some circumstance of your birth (race, gender, orientation, handicap, or otherwise).
I'm gay, I live in Texas(one of the shaded states) &I've never been denied service. But, I live right outside Houston, so for the most part, people around here aren't all that conservative. Although, I wasn't allowed to go to my high school prom because of my sexual orientation.
This is really interesting. I am not saying it is right to not let a person to be a patron of your establishment just because you don't like their sexual orientation, but if a person owns a business privately, don't they have the right to serve who they want? I mean, can't they just kick a person out even if they don't like your shirt? I am not up on all the laws, but I guess I thought business owners had the right to refuse service to anyone. But again, if that were the case there would be a lot of places who wouldn't serve blacks or asians or women or whatever the minority might be. I can't imagine a place of business being that hung up on something that they would be willing to lose clientele because of their predjudices. My husband owns a hunting/fishing business, runs a lodge and serves meals to people. In this economy, I'd think you'd take all the business you can get!
In the case of Virginia, there are no laws saying they are allowed to discriminate based on sexual orientation. However, there is a list of "protected classes" which they are absolutely not allowed to discriminate against and homosexuality is not on the list. The state has not passed laws saying, "Go ahead, hate on the gays!" Please, get your facts right.
This is just awful. It makes me thankful that I live in Canada, although it isn't perfect either.
@sojealoussrvs@xanga - Prom is overrated anyhow..you didn't miss anything. I didn't go and I'm not regretting it..lol
Not shocked at all.
@Hinase@xanga - haha, i know. &i heard from my friends who did go that it sucked. :)
@sojealoussrvs@xanga - Prom is not how it used to be years and years ago...
@SeeBeeWrite@xanga - Agreed. I'm a little shocked that it's legal in all of those states to deny a person service, but then again, America has denied their right to commit to their significant other through marriage.
It's unconstitutional.