Tuesday, 22 December 2009

  • You're Not Punishing Her, You're Encouraging Her!

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    So my best friend has a 2 year old daughter and is having a really hard time disciplining her. As a 20 year old working college student, she frequently needs someone to watch her daughter, Audrey. When she discovered her mother and grandmother were basically catering to the child and not disciplining her--thus making my best friend's life hell when SHE tried to discipline her--she decided to turn to daycare. Yes, it put an extra cramp on her wallet, but it seemed worth it.

    Lately, Audrey has been a lot more scrappy. Apparently the kids at daycare tend to fight a lot...and this is the best daycare in town we're talking about. Disappointing, right? To make matters better, this daycare's method of punishing is to squirt lemon juice in the kid's mouths. The problem with this...Audrey LOVES lemon juice. My friend has told them this, but they can't and/or won't change anything.

    So, this is where I pose my question...what should my friend do? A new daycare isn't really an option, as this is the best one she can afford. She's tried everything she can think of, from spanking to time outs to spraying water in her face and taking away toys. Nothing seems to be working. Any advice?

Comments (39)

  • princess_riceball@xanga

    If her grandmother and mother are more open to change to be discipline her more then maybe she could just switch back to them watching her daughter.  At least for my daughter a simple time out or taking of a few key items really seems to send a strong message.  This day care though definitely doesn't seem to be working.  I hope she can work something out.

  • sinpescado@xanga

    I wouldn't send my kids to a place where the discipline method of choice is to squirt lemon juice in the kids' mouths!  I think I would speak to the grandmother about a discipline plan - maybe make a wall chart for her to follow that has pictures for the little one to understand what will happen next - and go back to her.  At the same time, is there some way she can ask around for other daycares in the area?  Even in the tiny town I was in years ago, there were lots of options if you asked around enough to find them.


    And honestly, I'd be likely to make a call to the licensing people in the area about the daycare. Not necessarily to make a report but to find out if the lemon juice thing is even an allowed discipline method.  It seems suspect to me.  My concern would be that they are using what amounts to a physical punishment and if they will do this, what else are they willing to do?

  • filtered_sunlight

    The lemon juice thing is wonky... Where are the people that were outraged about the baby eating a lemon video? Wasn't it something to do with causing permanent damage to their teeth because of the acid?? I would look for another day care.


    Family is great, but, yes, they will cater to the kids and their way is always going to best, even if they agree to work on discipline, that'll only truly happen when your friend is in the room. The second she leaves for work, odds are high that that goes right out the window!

  • eugenia@xanga

    Whoa, I've never heard of punishment by lemon juice! Interesting and strange...

    My youngest brother also became more scrappy after going to daycare! He learned how to fight and would often come home with bruises. My parent ended up taking him out after a semester because he started to develop an attitude at age 3! I really think getting the whole family on board with a simple discipline plan might be the best thing to do. I'm sure it'll be super challenging for your friend to get her family on board but I really hope she'll be able to develop something simple and easy to follow that'll help her daughter.

  • black_lie@xanga

    isn't lemon juice bad for your teeth anyway, because it's acidic?
    anyway, my grandma, who raised me, used to threaten to throw me out if i was bad. i always only half-believed her until one day she locked me out of the apartment (trash goes in the hallways between apartments). from then on i was a good girl =P

  • a12906@xanga

    Two things: start beating her, or give her up for adoption. Working, going to school, and still being a kid herself, there's not much else she's able to do. I believe the 20 year old should not have kept the kid in the first place, since I am against physical discipline, the only option she has if she is to continue keeping the kid. Her mother and grandmother encouraged her by deciding to be parents to her kid. People these days just make me sad. Whatever happened to the days when pregnant teens were sent to "live with an aunt"?

  • yeahitslindsay@xanga

    My mom used to give me a time out and make me take a spoon full of vinegar. Blehk. She only needed to do that three times. Then I behaved :]

  • shondadiane@xanga

    sometimes kids need to set some rules, so if they break them, they broke their own rules...mom needs to guide the child's behavior positively, not negatively...

    give the child choices, but have all the choices you give them something that you want them to do anyways...so that the child is making the choice themselves, but its something you want...

    when it comes to violent behavior...I would use time away...not a time out...if they are doing something that they like to do when the outburst happens, if they don't stop the behavior in one warning--->you will choose the activity for them...children who fight don't get to make their own choice...

    I work with kids in kindergarten through fifth grade...I have to deal with behaviors all the time...

  • Daisy86162@xanga

    We spend a lot of time with my husbands family and they often let my kids get away with anything and everything.  I'm noticing though, that my kids know how far they can get with each person.  They wouldn't even dare think about pulling some of the things with me that they pull with Grandma!!!  Granted, I stay at home with my youngest and my 4 year old is at school so they are still getting most of their discipline (time-outs mainly) from me.  Still though, I think the child will learn what is and is not acceptable eventually, as long as the mom continues disciplining her way and praising her daughter relentlessly when she is behaving appropriately.  I think I say, "I am SOO happy with your behavior today at the store!! Thank you for being such a good girl!"  to my daughter numerous times a day/week.  

    Also, my daughter is now almost 3 but there was a time just before or after she turned 2 when I didn't want to let her out of the house because she was so horrible... Luckily, it was a phase and it soon ended but I was forced to learn to cook since I refused to take her to any restaurant with us! 

  • Morningstarrising@xanga
  • michcoy@xanga

    Not to repeat what everyone else already said, but lemon juice?  Really? I have never heard of that before in my life, very interesting.  I know it is not dangerous (besides maybe the teeth thing) but it just seems really bizarre.  I would def. try and find private care at this point if the grandma is not willing to be a little more firm with the child.  Good luck to your friend!  Two is such a fun age heh.

  • beepeing@xanga

    Before we punish kids, we need to discuss with them.... give them a chance to talk and to explain the mistake they did. We do punish when it is seriously effect their future behaviours. Otherwise, we will damage our relationship with them.

  • Summer_lovin_sweetie@xanga

    @a12906@xanga - YOU make me sad. Are you serious with this? "Whatever happened to the days when pregnant teens were sent to "live with an aunt"? Really? Why is she a bad mother? She's not doing anything wrong, all children misbehave, this problem has nothing to do with her age and who are you to judge her anyways? It sounds to me that the problem lies with the daycare and not meeting individual needs not with the mother. If you're going to be stupid you should keep your opinions to yourself because nobody wants to read about people who believe that only young mothers children misbehave and that since the child misbehaves it should have been given up for adoption since no other form of punishment is plausible in life children just come out perfect. Shut up nobody wants to hear stupid idiotic responses like this.

  • bubbelcat

    First of all I would NEVER have my child in a daycare center that uses any type of physical punishment.  Lemon juice?  That is outrageous, not because it's a lemon but because you are involuntarily squirting something into another person's mouth!?!  That is bullying pure and simple and I bet it's not even that effective.

    Anyway....two is a tough age but as another poster said kids do learn to behave according to varying expectations.  If your friend is firm and consistent with her daughter she will eventually see her behavior improve.  I'm guessing though the real problem is your friend is young and stressed and wants to see immediate improvement and that is why her methods are not working like she'd hope. 

  • PoetMcChick@xanga

    They're not listening to her disciplining rules any better than her family was. I would definitely go back to the family because they're cheaper, or probably free.

    @Summer_lovin_sweetie@xanga - Thank you!

  • x__RainOnHerParade@xanga

    To most people on here, thank you for your advice. I appreciate all the help you're offering. :)


    @a12906@xanga - Whatever happened to the days when people weren't judgemental jerks? Your comment is rude...just saying.  You can spank a kid without beating them, and you know what? She kept Audrey because she was taking responsibilty for her actions. She fell in love with a manipulative, abusive guy who used her for sex and has left her to deal with the consequences. She knows that she made a mistake and she is PAYING for it EVERY SINGLE DAY. So DON'T assume you know anything and say she should give the kid up for adoption or make it out like she's a nasty terrible person when you don't know ANYTHING about her. She's a human being with emotions who has made mistakes. She's learned her lesson...this is why she's trying to make a better life for her and her daughter.

  • x__RainOnHerParade@xanga

    @Summer_lovin_sweetie@xanga - And, thank you for standing up for her. I treasure her because she's a postiive role model not only for Audrey but for me...despite everything against her she's in college and working and trying to make a good life for herself and for Audrey, and it reallymeans a lot that you're standing up for her. Thank you so much. :)

  • LitchiCandy@xanga

    My grandparents and greatgrandparents spoil me [x. So they're not good alternatives to disciplining.

  • anonymous

    Hello
    I think kids want always love and care and mostly they don't like harsh people.Grand parents are always a best option.People should teach children very softly.Thank you very much..

  • jkl338810
  • RainDropPixie@xanga

    @a12906@xanga - Wow. I'd love to hear you say that to a young mother's face. Matter of fact, I'd love to hear you say that to my face.  I am the mother of a well balanced, gifted, disciplined, and loved 3 year old. I'm 22.  I am currently in a position in my life were I'm fortunate enough to be able to stay home with my son. Someday, though I'm going back to school, when my husband makes the police academy and my son is in school. I would like to set an example for my son, that no matter what choices that you make in life, you can always better your life and live a happy life.

    I don't remember any where in the OP where it was said that she physically disciplines her child. There are plenty of non physical ways of discipline. Redirection, choices, praising for good behavior, or time out...are the ones that come immediately to mind.

    Your comment is ignorant to assume that a mother of a two year old, regardless of the mother's age, could spend 2 years bonding with her baby and then just give it away.  The OPs friend, can afford child care, even if it is a squeeze. She works. She can afford her child. She's going to school, so that she can get better pay. She disciplines her child, unlike a majority of parents today (young or old). She seems to be perfectly fit to be a mother. The issue doesn't not lie within the mother. It lies with in the childcare and grandparents.  If discipline is not consistent at every place a child visits, it causes turmoil with them. They know they can get something from grandma or teacher, but can't from mom...so that results in a fit. Then mom disciplines, by whatever her method is, and then the kid listens. But, then next time they're with gma/teach they get away with it again...and you see how it is a vicious cycle.  Now with a 2 year old things get more tricky. They are learning learning boundaries. When those boundaries aren't set by some and set by others it causes confusion and frustration...which a 2 year old then transfers to acting out.

    Maybe you should do something thinking about what it is like to parent, before making another ignorant comment.

    At the topic:

    I would first, be looking for a new child care provider.  Either a center, or a licensed home care provider. A home day care is going to be able to cater more to her individual needs, and normally are less expensive.

    Then I would be calling licensing, because squirting lemon juice as a form of discipline is abuse, and horrible on their teeth. I would have had a good long talk with the center director the day I found out. She needs to file a report, and have licensing come out and investigate they may be doing more than squirting lemon juice in their mouths.

    Finally, I would have a talk with Grandma. Tell her I appreciate her help, but disciplining needs to be consistent. Make a job chart, have a time out spot (if that is what she does) remember no more than 2 minutes for a 2 year old, make sure she adheres to her breakfast, lunch, nap, and snack schedule...and any thing else mom prefers.

  • Xbeautifully_broken_downX@xanga

    Okay. Question. Isn't that what GRANDPARENTS are supposed to do??? I mean. Just asking. Haha.

    I would've TALKED to them before yanking her out of their care and putting her in daycare...in fact, I could've told her that being around KIDS who get away with MORE stuff than she does would have been worse for her.  Kids model. That's how they learn. She is OBVIOUSLY being exposed to a great deal of innappropriate behavior and acting on it.
    Spraying water in her face? Excuse me for saying, but DAMN. Seriously? Everyone has practically gone gaga over the lemon juice offense, but now we're treating kids like animals and spraying water in their faces? I'm sorry, but that is really fucked the hell up. 
    I'd also suggest a parenting class for mom. Sounds like she needs to learn some new techniques. 
    Another thought: Your friend sounds busy. SUPER busy. Audrey is most likely acting out because her mother is preoccupied, and she gets all this attention [I can tell just by naming how many different discipline methods you've named here] from mom when she acts out. That is easily remedied. 
    ALSO. Tell your friend to PICK a method and stick with it. By switching up, you're being inconsistent and kids don't do well with inconsistency....find something and keep doing it. Even if it doesn't work all that well at first, the child will begin to expect it and will learn how to avoid behavior that warrants punishment.

  • Xbeautifully_broken_downX@xanga

    @a12906@xanga - You obviously have unresolved issues about the whole parent/child relationship, which is fine, but these feelings have no bearing on this parent's desire to further her skills. 


    Furthermore, if you want to be an ass, that is fine, but next time, I'd recommend you do it anon.
    Thank you.


  • emaciationxisxthexgoal@xanga

    Um squirting lemon juice in her mouth? Spraying water in her face? I spray my cats with water. This is a child, not a dog. Your friend needs to get some new parenting skills and find a different daycare. why doesn't she try to get a teenage babysitter or something. Or a stay-at-home mom. There are lots of cheaper alternatives to daycare.


    Tell your friend that water bottles need to be reserved for cats who claw the furniture, not her f***king child.
  • x__RainOnHerParade@xanga

    @Xbeautifully_broken_downX@xanga - @emaciationxisxthexgoal@xanga - 


    I don't see a problem with spraying water in the face. If it deters behavior, then why the hell not? Someone suggested a spoonful of vinegar, which according to a few adults I've talked to can close up the child's throat, and no one's freaking out about that.


    To the first of these two replies; she DID talk to them. When she tried to talk to her grandmother, she yelled at her and said "i've raised four children, I  know more than you ever will". When she talked to her mom, her mom said, "okay." and nothing changed.


    to the second: yeah, MY mom recommend the water bottle idea. And I'm a pretty decent person. So don't be rude, because it's not like she's beating the kid. It's WATER, not ACID.. Besides, Audrey just laughed, it didn't do anything.

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