Friday, 18 December 2009

  • Blame the Teacher?

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    I just read the post  about the teacher "getting off easy." All I have to say is WHAT?

    I'm not saying that doing anything permanent or physically harmful to a child is alright, but are we seriously getting onto this teacher this much?

    When I was seven year old, nobody acted that way in class and got away with it.  Teachers could stand you up in the corner in front of the whole class and make you stand there for the rest of the hour.  Teachers could make you wear a silly hat for being dumb.  Teachers could sit you down in a desk at the front and face the rest of the classroom. Teachers could take away disruptive things that you had on you (including clothing, jewelry, hair accessories and other things) and make you wear regular gym clothes that were generically sized to fit most kids. 

    Personally I wouldn't have cut anything off the girl.  She would have stood in front of the whole class and removed every single one of those beads off her hair so that she couldn't make noise anymore. She would take off her own beads and I would have kept them for the remainder of the day. Things like that happened to kids when we were in school.

    It was ok to embarrass children for misbehaving.  Bad behavior should be something to be embarrassed of anyway, so why not make them that way.  Everyone is up in arms about how this child is embarrassed and traumatized!  Personally I think she should be.  She was being disruptive and obnoxious.  When asked to stop she didn't.  She didn't even go up to the front willingly.  She had to be tricked! 

    If I had to be asked more than once to do anything when I was 7 I would have been spanked and my toys taken away!  If I didn't listen to a teacher repeatedly my parents would have been mad at me, not the school.  I would have come home with one less braid and my mom would have spanked me for disrupting the class.  If I had all that this girl did, my mother would have cut the rest of my braids off so I couldn't do it again!

    I am so livid that all these parents expect teachers to put up with their children's awful behavior.  Send your child to school behaving properly and things like this won't happen!  The teacher may have gone overboard, but by no means is she a monster, or some awful psychotic woman.  That child really deserved what she got!

    Boohoo, she had to cry and everyone made fun of her!  Good!  She should be spending time in school learning, not disobeying her teacher and disrupting the class!  If it were my child, I'd be seriously re-evaluating my  parenting skills.  Clearly I sent my child to school without impressing on them the proper behavior!

    Would you let your children behave this way in the classroom?

Comments (222)

  • MangoWOW@xanga

    Im pretty sure everyone agree's that the teacher shouldnt have touched the girl. 

    But I agree, if the child is misbehaving then let them be punished for it. The same people who were whining about firing the teacher and making her shave her head will probably be the type of parents who can't handle the idea of their children being less then perfect. It will always be the teachers fault for them.


    I'm getting tired of whiny parents.
  • filtered_sunlight

    Agreed. (Again, heh.) I may have mentioned it previously, but when I was in school a girl in my 4th grade class had her headband taken away for the day & it didn't even make noise, she was just playing with it instead of listening to the lesson. The only difference between this and that is that headband could easily be snatched away...and the girl gave up her headband willingly, she didn't resist/have to be tricked. (Adding fuel to the teacher's fire, no doubt.)


    People make a point of saying how teachers are not "God", but they want them to have the patience of saints. I'm sorry, but they're human too! I'm confident that we all have acted unreasonably at some point in our lives. Maybe we just yelled when it wasn't completely warranted, but still you would think people would have an ounce of understanding since we've all been there to some degree.

  • averyswife@xanga

    I wholeheartedly agree with this post!  And personally, I think teachers SHOULD be allowed to touch their students if the need arises.  After all, they're "parenting" those kids as much or more as their parents so some form of strict discipline is needed.  I'm all for corporal punishment in the school system.

  • Brilliant_Innocence@xanga

    This is a great question, because it's going to bring out all the self righteous "I'm the perfect parent" type of comments.  Yippe!


    Last I checked, it wasn't a requirement to learn how to cut hair when in college to become a teacher.  If I wanted my child's hair cut, I'd take them to the barber, not my child's first grade teacher!  If my child acted this way, I would appreciate being told calmly, first, so that I could take appropriate action. If the teacher just took it upon herself to cut my child's hair, I would be angry.  I would hope my children never acted badly in school, but my mom raised me with manners and I still messed up from time to time.  Most kids I know got in trouble at least once in school. I've yet to meet the perfect parents who raised the perfect kids.


    Seriously, My mom has been a teacher for over 33 years and has never done anything like this. Why? Because she knows the proper way to handle this kind of situation.  She even agreed that what this teacher did was wrong, AND SHE'S A TEACHER!  Of course, she also agrees that many children aren't very disciplined and she's had very stressful school years. She has always acted professionaly and done the right kind of discipline.  She's never physically disciplined a child.  There are other ways to dealing with bad situations. Also, for an entire year, she's put up with worse behavior than some girl playing with her hair!!!!    


    And this statement "Teachers could make you wear a silly hat for being dumb." .... I have hardly any words. Seriously? You think that teachers now a days should still be able to point out kids and call them dumb and let the entire class make fun of them? Are you serious? And you want to call other people bad parents?

  • princess_riceball@xanga

    I don't think the teacher should of cut her hair.  Though I don't think the child should have been disruptive.  I was one of the people to ask if there are not other ways to go about it.  When I was in school many of the things you described just didn't happen.  Kids were sent to the principle's office, parents were called, etc.  Also someone from the office could be called down to the class room to remove someone truly disruptive that wouldn't listen long enough to leave the room.  I do think there were other ways for this teacher to handle the situation.  Calling a child up to the desk for candy then cutting their hair is just not right at all. 

    Again I agree children should be punished.  Though I just don't think that teacher's should be allowed to do this sort of thing. My deal is not that everyone made fun of her, it is that now she has a chunk of her hair missing.  Once again I don't think teachers should have to put up with bad behavior, I just think there were better ways to handle this.

    If I would send my daughter to school I would expect her to be sent to a principle's office for disruptive behavior and I would expect a phone call.  I would hope that the focus should be on learning in a class room, and removing disruptions not causing further ones by humiliating someone into behaving.

  • michcoy@xanga

    The child should have been disciplined but the teacher should have never cut the child's hair.  There are a million ways in which this teacher could have handled this situation better.  Who knows what may happen the next time this teacher snaps because a kid is being a kid.  Sure the child could have behaved better but I have never met a child who didn't annoy someone simply because they knew that is exactly what they were doing, being annoying!

  • ShimmerBodyCream@xanga

    If that was my kid I would have punched the teacher in the face.

  • Shinbi_Belldandy@xanga

    I wasnt aware that public humiliation was a factor in raising children. There are other ways of punishing a child without playing on their self-esteem.

    I have a feeling if the situation were reversed & a student came at the teacher with scissors & cited stress later on, people would try to get that students locked up. Kids will be kids. Sometimes they do act out & play around in class but that doesnt give someone the right to cut off their hair or humiliate them. EVER. 

  • hyunj09@xanga

    That's why they're teachers, not parents. Teachers teach, parents discipline. Teachers may discipline in a general way, like sending to a principal, or standing in a corner, but to take something permanent from her, like her HAIR, um, that is NOT right.


    Now, since you just dissed the righteous anger of the people, I will stand you up in front of the news center and cut off YOUR hair.


    Wonderful, isn't it?

  • Venca@xanga

    WOW. Your sadistic mentality is just as fucked up as that of the teacher who cut the girl's braid. This is the year 2009, not 1809. Good thing you don't teach.

  • Shy___Away@xanga

    Public degradation and humiliation has never been part of the "good parent" curriculum, and I am highly leery of your suggestion that it should be part of the normal teaching day. Just as there are alternative routes to yelling, hitting and embarrassing your children (while 'teaching' them not to do the same, haha) to get the behavior you want, teachers have that same option. 


    I know some parents that get so flustered over the fact that teachers aren't allowed to spank children in schools. "Well, how are they supposed to maintain order then?! Huh?! Answer me that!!" There are plenty of ways to outline boundaries and administer consequences without striking someone. (That's just so lazy.) And humiliation is even lazier. It's easy to make a six year old feel like shit! And if that's your thing, it will make you feel powerful, which is a dangerous road to go down.
  • RainDropPixie@xanga

    Yeah. As a former teacher, now a stay at home mom, I would have lost my job instantly for much lesser things. My teaching job also, wasn't your stereotypical teaching job. I worked with CPS, with at risk kids from newborn to 12 years of age. I taught head start preschoolers. I worked daily with social workers, abused children, children from drug homes, foster kids..etc.  A kid playing with their hair was the least of their worries in my class room, I had a 5 year old threaten to shoot me.

    Humiliation is never the answer, and they're going to do the same to you. Teachers, and parents alike should be leading by example not humiliation.

    I was only once humiliated by a teacher. He was a coach, who taught history. He insisted that we all say "yes sir" and "no sir". Yet he'd spend an entire class yelling at us. I don't mean a raised voice, I mean red-faced yelling.  So one day he asked me a yes or no question.  I said yes. He stood me up in front of the class, yelled at me. Drug me out of the room by my arm. Yelled at me in the hall where other classes could hear, the french teacher next door even shut her door, because he was disrupting her class. Then he paused, looked at me and said, say "yes sir". I looked at him (I was 12), and said "No, those are words of respect, you have not earned my respect." He looked at me and went off about how I smelled like cigarette smoke, and to explain myself. My mom smoked in the car, my mom smoked in the house.. and that is what I told him. So he threatened to turn me into the campus police for smoking on school property...and insisted on searching my bag and jacket. Which, I refused. Eventually he'd had enough, and refused to send me to the office...because he knew he'd messed up big time. Next day my mom had a conference, he was allowed to work the rest of the year, because they were very short staffed, but after that he was transferred schools, and was no longer allowed to teach...only coach.

  • helvetebrann@xanga

    As a teacher, the teacher should be to blame for this incident.  I'm sorry, but children aren't raised the same way that they "used" to be.  And to be honest, there never was a golden age of "perfect children" anyway.  The behavior of the child never excuses the actions of the teacher.

  • firetyger@xanga

    Yes, there are parents who don't teach their children to behave as they should which is bad.  But that in no way excuses the teacher from cutting the girls hair off.  That is beyond inappropriate.  The teacher easily could have sent her to the principal's office instead.

    I'm a mother and I try to keep my children in line.  If they misbehaved at school I would be fine if they were put in a corner or sent to detention.  But I would not under any circumstances be comfortable with a teacher humiliating them or cutting off their hair.

  • draco1531@xanga

    @Shinbi_Belldandy@xanga - Yours was the best response I've heard yet. Thank you. 

  • Shinbi_Belldandy@xanga

    @draco1531@xanga - No thank YOU! I cant believe this poster is preaching what this teacher did was perfectly alright & tried to blame the matter on parents not teaching their children. That's crazy. Her response to me on my post was not very nice either.

  • christiangirl@datingish

    As a future teacher, I don't think the teacher should have cut off the kid's hair.Just a note, here in Canada at least, teachers do have the right to touch a child, even "roughly" like pushing them, but it is in VERY specific situations, situations like having a fire, and your PUSHING the kid towards the door helped them, or picking them up and running...if you ACCIDENTALLY touched something while saving the kid's life, no one's going to complain.

    Cutting off the kid's hair...inexcusable. Let's say we forget the kid for a moment, I don't care how stressed you are, as an adult, you should be able to control that, and release it in a reasonable manner. That's like saying it's ok to abuse your kid because "I was stressed and they were annoying me" EXCUSE ME?! no, it's not ok, it has never been ok to unleash your problems on the defenseless. Especially when there is a power inequality. As an adult you are equipped, or should be, with coping mechanisms that the child has not yet learned or developed.

    Let's say you're at work, and your boss just is stressed so comes up to you and decides to cut off your hair...you would have human rights in their immediately, and your boss would be fired, no questions asked...if he/she was REALLY high up, maybe transferred to a different department/branch and some anger/stress management classes paid for by the company.

    BUT! when it's a child, just because they're not our equals, it's allowed? Well, clearly it is, but it shouldn't be. The child is still a human being.

    And yes, teachers are becoming more and more disciplinary figures as well as teachers, but that has ALWAYS been the case, sure parents might not be doing as good as a job, but there will ALWAYS be at least one kid who comes come a less than ideal home situation. This has been true since education became mandatory for children. This is the reason why there are SUPPORT systems in place for teachers, and special education teachers for children who may have any kid of disability. This is why there are MANDATORY classes on classroom management, as well as mandatory professional development days once you're officially a teacher.

    I'm sorry, no matter how aggravating the child was, the teacher's actions were horrible, and she should have her license temporarily revoked until she has sufficiently shown that she has developed some sort of coping mechanisms or releasing her stress.

  • believe_in_dreams27@xanga

    With that whole ordeal I feel the teacher should receive some kind of punishment for it. not like a death sentence or lose their job, esp with how hard the jobs are. but maybe see the councilor or something bout frustration relievers. people absent mindedly play with their hair all the time I know I do it. but thats because I cut my head open when I was three so I always play with the hair in that one spot. still these arent always something that can be helped and it's not like the girl was trying to disrupt class or anything. I thought it was in the old days when a teacher could hit a kid with a ruler on the knuckles? shouldn't that involve any touching of the child? even cutting off a braid? Freedom to wear what you want, its not against the law for her to have beaded braids. girls in my class had them all the time when I was in elementary school. She shouldn't have to stand in front of everyone and take them out. I'm only 19 and I know that parents trust when they send their kids to school they are entrusting that their children come home the same as they left, except with extra knowledge in their noggin. I think this whole thing is ridiculous and could have been avoided if the teacher didn't let her frustration get the best of her. we all get frustrated but theres a time a nd place for everything and that certainly was unacceptable.  cutting off a braid is a permanent thing until that hair grows back, a temporary headache or little frustration goes away easily. the hair doesnt come back as easily. 

  • filtered_sunlight

    Just the insane thought of an insomniac, but I wonder how many people up in arms at the prospect of a misbehaved kid being embarrassed applaud for things like the police department publishing photos of busted Johns in newspapers? Hello? Our society still does endorse embarrassment as punishment...but apparently only after our parents have already failed to teach us right from wrong...?

    "Bad behavior should be something to be embarrassed of..."

  • tracezilla@lovelyish

    I don't think anyone is trying to say that the girl shouldn't have been punished. Any number of the things you listed about what teachers could do in your day and did do in your day would've sufficed, as far as I am concerned. But that teacher had zero right to put her hands (or scissors) on that child in any way. That is not acceptable in this day in age, corporal punishment of any kind isn't allowed. If you think it should be, that's another matter.

    I agree, she should have been punished and bad behavior certainly is something to be ashamed of. But, that teacher had no right to touch her or her hair.

    And the things your mother would've done to you is irrelevant in this case. Because, she is your mother and would have had a right. That teacher, however, is no relation and had no right.

    That teacher did get off too easily for breaking rules and putting her hands on a child the way that she did. Or at all, really. No matter how obnoxious. And, she should have been fired for it.

    Taking away the girl's beads would have been appropriate. Cutting off her hair is just going way over the line. That is why I think she should've been fired. Not because she punished the girl, but because of how she punished the girl.

  • kpsmom3@xanga

    Do you even have kids?  Kids act up regardless of the parenting.  Seriously.


    While the child's behavior needed to be dealt with, she has NO right to cut that little girls hair and I would have been down at that school with the teachers head on a platter in about two seconds.  I have two kids with ADHD.  One of them has a seriously hard time sitting still in class.  I work with the teachers to come up with ways that he can self regulate.  He knows what to do if he's having trouble and it works.  If she were to embarrass him he would be *crushed*.   The kids around him know he will move if he's getting fidgety.  It allows him to continue to learn.


    Those things that you talked about your parents doing were done in private.  Think about that. 


    That said, I do agree with you that it's not okay that teachers are so scared of disciplining our kids.  I've told all of my kids teachers, do what you need to do and by the way, put me on speed dial.  I work with them because I know my kids aren't perfect.  You always see relief on their face when I tell them that.  It's sad that they basically need permission to take care of classroom issues.  Way too many parents think their kids are angels. 

  • babykittytara@xanga

    I agree with this for the most part, which kinda surprised me.  I read the original post, and was seriously pissed off that a teacher would do that.  But I didn't really know how to respond to something like that, since it's also the parent's fault the child was a distraction.  The girl really was disrupting all of her class because of the beads in her hair.  In the end, the teacher didn't have the right to cut out the girl's braid - I think everyone's in agreement to that.  But the idea of making her take the beads out herself is a good one, since that would solve the problem.

  • Lost_In_Reverie@xanga

    As someone who has suffered from social anxiety (and other anxiety problems as well) since she was a little girl, I am appalled at your suggestions that public humiliation and mockery are appropriate disciplinary tactics for children. I was never really any sort of disciplinary problem as a child, but if I had been disciplined in many of the ways you mentioned, (for example, being put in a silly hat and called dumb) I would have done anything in my power to avoid going back to school. The fact that you would even suggest such a thing is incredibly insensitive. 

  • tsh44@xanga

    When an adult reaches the point that they can no longer deal with a child's misbehavior in an adult manner it's time to send the child out of the room. The child behaved in a childish way because she is a child. Maybe she had horrible parents who don't discipline her and let her run wild, maybe she had a nervous tick that made it impossible for her to leave her hair alone who knows? Who cares? Either way the child is a child. Period. The teacher is an adult in a position of authority and I believe it's fair to expect her to act that way all the time. The teacher had alternatives listed in disciplinary procedures of the school for dealing with a child who will not behave and cutting the childs hair is not one of those alternatives. Sure being a teacher is tough, sure maintaining control in the face of bratty kids is hard but those are simply excuses. The teacher is always to blame when the teacher loses control. Period. She may have her reasons but in the end she lost it and she needs to take responsibility for the choice she made.

  • StarAndSpiral@xanga

    I don't think she should have cut her hair.  

    But I've seen so many comments that say "send her to the principle" as a punishment.  And the principle is supposed to do what, exactly?  He has no right to do anything that the teacher can do!  The only thing that can be done is to put the kid in in-school suspension.  Guess what?  Many kids LIKE in-school suspension.  That's why so many kids are brats.  The parents don't discipline them and the school can't.  
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