We were at a retail store. At first glance, I saw a small child who was about the age of three... standing alone, with a defiant look on his face. I have three children I know that look. I searched for the child's father out of concern for the child.
Up the aisle about 30 to 40 feet from the child, there was his father walking away. The father's other two children were getting his attention, letting him know that the child alone, was left behind. I watched as the father turned around and looked at the lone child from the 30 to 40 feet expanse between them. The child just stared right back at him. It almost looked like something you would have seen in the wild west movies.
The father gave the lone child the "come here" finger. The lone child proceeded to call the bluff and shook his head "no". This is the point where my parenting style would differ.
The father threw his hands up in the air and turned around with his back facing the child and walked toward the exit to show the child, "if you don't come, you'll just stay here and you'll be here alone."
The lone child proceeded to hide behind a pole occasionally showing part of his arm, head, or foot from behind it. Now... there are lots of things obstructing the father's view. The father stood waiting 10 feet from the exit door and waited to see if the lone child will react to his mind game. At times the child is totally swallowed up by the obstructions.
The father finally noticed my wife and I are cued in to his parenting style and proceeded to make his stand. My wife and I continued with what we were doing. My wife kept looking back to make sure the child didn't run off (or worse). As I passed the father the second time, he was still waiting to see if his mind game would pay off. The father finally went back to get the defiant child after the situation lasted a total of 5 minutes.
Normally, I'm not a person to critique anyone's parenting styles. I know you're waiting for the "but." But, here are my problems with this situation. Remember I also have 3 children so I can sympathize.
1. I understand the need for discipline, but mind games are not the answer with a three year old.
a. You are playing with hid emotions and using them to your advantage (otherwise manipulating your child)
b. You are fracturing the father-child relationship. You are teaching the child that if he doesn't listen, you will leave him.
2. With the child out of sight, occasionally the father has just increased the probability that the child could be taken or could get lost. There are 4 register child sex offenders in the area and one of them had abducted a child . All it takes is one moment and one blink of an eye and that child could have been gone.
What I would have done? I would have put the child in the shopping cart, paid for my groceries, and left the store, and then I would have administered whatever punishment was necessary. In my opinion, you never leave a child behind!
You show your child discipline, you show your child love, you never play with his head, or one day he will defiantly play with yours.
Do you use reverse psychology or mind games to get your child to do something? What would you have done if you were the father?
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Comments (23)
I've only been left once... that was enough... I panicked. After seeing that my parents NEVER did that again. Instead, I got STERN threats and warning coupled with immediate punishment and scolding... My mother was the best as smiling and saying loving things with the most EVIL look in her eyes as she pinched me or stepped on my foot... needless to say I learned to behave QUICKLY!!! I behaved so well after a while people complimented her and that made me feel good enough to just be good.
sigh. parenting classes should be a legal requirement before having kids....
i would have walked back over to my child as soon as i saw that he had stopped walking (which i'd like to hope would be much sooner than that guy), knelt down to his level, and told him that we needed to stay together to be safe, and that if he did not come with me, he would be forced to sit in the cart. much the same as you, i would have quickly paid for my things and left the store as soon as possible.
i have a (soon to be) 4 year old son, and mind games are so not in my playbook. well, to be perfectly honest, in minor cases, i will use reverse physchology (i.e. "i'm going to try to pick up all the toys faster than you, so you better hurry if you want to beat me!) but it is never with the intention of matching my son's emotional level with my own.
I have tried this but only in my son's therapy office, never a crowded area. And, it worked but only for a short time. So, it really wasn't worth it for me and I highly doubt I'll try it again. I, personally, don't believe in waiting for punishment.
This may sound weird but I once read a dog-training book when we first got our puppy that said there was no use in disciplining a dog after they've done the act. It said you have to catch them and punish them in the middle or they won't understand. I figure a child is pretty much the same. If I wait 15 minutes, is my child really going to understand what they've done wrong? My son may not, he is 4 but is also deaf so he has the communication skills of a 2 year old and it is very difficult to know what he's understanding. So, with him, I usually count to three and if he doesn't obey, he gets a light slap on his hand. This has worked every single time.
With my daughter (2), who is typical in every way, this method does not work as well. It still works but it depends on the situation. If she's getting into something at home, it will work. If she is screaming in the grocery store because she doesn't want to sit in the cart, it will not. For her, I have found time-out works wonders. For example, we were shopping one day and she had a melt down. So, I pulled her to an open area of the store and sat down with her and held her hands until she was calm. Then I was able to communicate the problem with her. I have only had to do that once with her. We also use rewards for her when we anticipate a problem. At the grocery store, for example, she gets a balloon at the end of the trip if she has been good. This works every time.
This comment was much longer than I anticipated...
Mind games have no place in discipline in my opinion. I am very much a say what you mean and mean what you say person. If I say no, I mean no. If I say it's time to go, I mean it's time to go. Striking fear into your kid that you might leave them there alone is kinda mean. Unfortunately I see it in the store all the time - the parent nonchalantly says "bye, you can stay here alone" while walking away and the kid freaks out. Kids should know they can depend on their parents, not fear that they'll "lose" them.
I can't fathom using mind games or reverse psychology on my son. I think it would backfire horribly. If I were the father, I'd just pick him up and go.
My mom is the queen of mind games and "strings attached". The end result with me was that I learned how to win the game. I refuse to play with her or anyone else.
As a parent, I have a much closer relationship with my child than I ever had with my mom. My son is better behaved and happier than I ever was. Not only I will not play mind games, I also will not hit my child. I have spared the rod and the manipulation and I can say that my child is extremely well behaved, kind, and loving with just the right amount of defiance to show that he has a mind of his own.
I've also heard about parents telling their children if they're bad, a policeman will come and take them away. That teaches the children to be afraid of police officers, and if they're ever in trouble, they'll never go to one for help.
My whole family's done the above scenario with the kids of the family. I completely understand the point of view where it teaches the child that the parent won't stay around if they don't listen. I do not believe I will use it with my own child.
No, I don't think mind games work on small children...maybe teenagers though.
If I were the dad, I would have marched right up to the kid, spanked his bottom and put him in the cart. Unfortunately some "better-knowing" person probably would call CPS about the spanking.
It's hard to discipline well in today's world...we all criticize each other's techniques.
Do you use reverse psychology or mind games to get your child to do something? What would you have done if you were the father?
*I don't have a kid and I don't think I'd really use reverse psychology on my kid. Well not in that situation, but maybe something like cleaning their room or whatever.
*Well I would've walked back to the kid, put him in the cart (if I had one) and bring him back with me.
My parents told me that if I was bad they would take me back to the hospital for a refund. When I pointed out that we no longer lived in the city that I was born in they said the hospitals were like Wal-Marts, if you have your receipt you can return any child to any hospital for a refund or exchange. They would exchange me for a kid that would mind. Sometimes we would even get in the car and head in the direction of the local hospital. I never fully believed them, but I figured if they felt strongly enough about it to drive there then maybe I should mind them. Also what if....
It's a family joke now. I have excellent relationships with both of my parents and I am an extremely well behaved adult. I do believe in mind games. I think they promote independent thought and introspection, if done correctly. Mind games can be harmful too if done with a malicious intent.
When I was probably 10 years old my mom told me it was time to leave a meeting we were at in our church building. When i didn't leave with her right away she actually did drive around the block leaving me behind. It was tramatizing. I never did it again. But to my defense...there were lots of times she would say it was "time to go" and then we'd still be there for another half hour.
So my opinion- there's a time and place for these types of discipline - but not with a 3 year old and not in a public place where you can't trust everyone still there with your child..
Mind games with children is a horrible thing! We are teach our children discipline. When mom says come here we are to do as mom says. Follow the rules. Right now I do not let allow my children to question me. As they get older and begin to actually see the world for itself I will entertain questions. Right now you just need to listen.
What the...
That's very mean of him.
two words spring to mind --- spank, and bottom
you can't beat nor spank your kids any more
because if your caught spanking your kids in public you can
serve time in jail but they only way to discipline your kids is to give them time out and make them sit in a corner until they can prove to behave themself and plus to make them say sorry to you or call they www.supernanny.com
they can help parents like you all with kids and i wish you
all they very best of luck.
I DEFINATENIY AGREE WITH U , U NEVER LEAVE A CHILD ALONE. I WOULD HAVE DID THE SAME THING U SAID TO DO. PEOPLE ARE CRAZY THESE DAYS AND KIDS WILL BE KIDS.
@bentbrokenandtorn@xanga - i suggested people need licences to have kids, & everyone who possibly could shot me down, how the hell is a required license different from required classes, when the license is just evidence you took classes?...i'm not going off on you, i'm aware it sounds like it.
@a12906@xanga - odd. maybe they misunderstood how the license would be obtained? people like to misconstrue my comments all the time, so i know how it feels...
i'm with you on that, though.
i also think marital counseling should be a requirement for anyone planning to get hitched. it sure might put a dent in the divorce rate....
@daisy86182@xanga- I don't have my own kids (yet), and I'm not necessarily applying this to your son, because I don't have any experience in the matter, but I will say that you may be surprised at how much kids do remember. I've been a nanny for quite a while and sometimes there are no practical ways to discipline the child on the spot. What I find works best (even with kids as young as 2) is telling them that what they are doing is not acceptable and such and such a consequence will occur at whatever given time. This works best if you do follow through as soon as possible. Example: If you keep acting this way, we will take away your stuffed animal for the car ride home. Follow through, but before you do so, explain- in a calm way- calling their attention to what happened in public and the consequences. With older kids, it doesn't matter so much that you follow through ASAP, only that you do so when you said you would. Surprising a kid with discipline never works, but waiting until an appropriate time is a completely different matter.
@bentbrokenandtorn@xanga - I agree with you about the parenting classes.
@a12906@xanga - I agree with you, I'd even go as far as applying to be a parent, you have to apply to get a license and loans, why not be a parent.
Anywho, I heard the line "Whatever, we're leaving with or without you"... and then they'd start walking & I'd run after em... multiple times growing up.. Then again, I was left alone at the age of 5-6 with my 2 younger sisters to babysit because my mom was working 2 jobs.
I would have totally done something if I was the father. I would have gone back, picked the kid up, paid for my items then did whatever disciplining I needed to with the kid outside in the car.
i'm not a parent (though i want to be) but i generally was a well-behaved child because my parents knew how to live around their children. we weren't spoiled, we kept a routine and we were given things to do when we were really young (books, a small toy, cheerios to nibble on, what have you) for situations such as restaurants and trips to the store. we were included in the situation ("help mommy find the paper towels on the shelf!") so that we were included and part of the time together. we weren't taken out when we were tired, or sick, etc.Â
i feel a lot of parents mess up there. their kids don't have routines, or aren't explained to that, "we're going in the store to get food for the house-we will not be getting any toys...you can either have cheerios or rice krispies. that's your choice."
the thing is (and i know this as a psych student, not a parent) is that small children have a big thing about trust. they need to know that you love them no matter what they do, but they won't always like the circumstances you impose when they don't cooperate.Â
but to leave them behind (or at least pretend to) is really malicious, cold, and harmful to a child. as many people said above, they were panicked or traumatized. small children need to know they're safe with mom or dad, and that they will NEVER leave them. teaching them that "if you're bad" (which is too global and big a concept for a child to understand)..."i will leave you here" (i don't love you anymore) is not the lesson the child needs to learn. you need to be specific with them in order for them to understand. i am taking away X (or, you're not getting X) because you did Y, which makes it hard for mommy to get the groceries."
using mind games like that is the lazy way to discipline a child. discipline for a child involves lots of explanations, and lots of time, before you even put them in the car to go anywhere.i think using mind games like that can really hurt a child, and knowing my inability to shut up i probably would have lost it on the dad. but that's just me. =/
my parents did that with me...never to the extent where they couldn't see me though. they would just say "well if you want to stay here, you can, but we're leaving" and proceed to take a few steps (i have 2 brothers btw and normally all three of us would be together) after they walked about a meter or so they would turn and just give us THE LOOK that BASICALLY said "look we all know that you're going to end up coming out of _____ with us....so you can either come now, and we'll all be happy, or you can make me come get you and you will get a nice talk about it in the car"
my parents were always good though, in that we never left a place suddenly. we were ALWAYS given a talk in the car on the way there about how "when it's time to go, it's time to go, understand?" and then 10minutes before we would go, my mom/dad would come and tell us that we had 10minutes more, and then they would come warn us again at 5minutes. This went ALL the way up to now =) Although now we get more like 1/2 hour warning...it works wonders =) If I KNOW beforehand that I wont be able to finish the movie or whatever, I won't get mad when we have to go, if you just come and tell me "we're leaving" and I'm in the middle of a movie....yeah I'll come, but I wont be happy about it.. =P
It depends on the child, honestly. when I was young my parents did this to me--and it worked, because I was one of those attention-seeking kids who threw fits FOR attention, when the attention was removed I freaked out.
It's hard to know how your kid is but if they seem to be focused on getting attention then this could actually be a good method.
Though in today's society this is NOT very safe at all.