Monday, 03 November 2008
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Taxes, Taxes, Who Pays Taxes?
Many (although I hope not all) conservatives would have us believe that the lower class and lower middle class do not pay taxes. I think we can all remember a certain politician recently saying that the portion of citizens who don’t make much money are not paying taxes therefore don’t deserve the tax break that another candidate is suggesting. This outraged me because my husband and I spent the first few years of marriage in the lower class and we have spent the rest of our marriage in the lower middle class tax bracket. This experience in both income brackets has inspired me to bust a few myths about our taxation.
As for state and federal income taxes, my husband and I have paid into Social Security, Medicare, and income tax as long as we have been married. When our combined gross income was under $10,000, we still paid income taxes. In fact, since two of my employers back in 1994 did not take out any taxes for paychecks under $100, we owed an extra $500 at the end of the year. My step father, the uber Republican, insisted on paying our taxes that year. We argued that we wanted to take care of it ourselves but he would not hear of it. Fourteen years later, we are making more money and while we are still in the lower middle class, we are also still paying income, Social Security, and Medicare taxes. In fact, no matter how much we seem to have taken out of my husband’s check, we still always seem to owe more on state taxes.
Aside from income taxes, we pay other taxes as well. Regardless of one’s income, there is no escaping sales tax. To drive on any highway within a 50 mile radius of our home, we pay tolls, which is a tax. When we renew our vehicle registration, we are paying a tax. While we do not own our home, “You betcha” we are paying property taxes through our rent. No landlord or commercial property owner is going to eat property taxes. They pass it on to their tennants. Heck, when we pay for our utilities, we are paying all sorts of taxes on those bills. Has anyone out there other than me read all those bizarre taxes tacked on to electric, water, phone, and gas bills? Oh yeah! That reminds me! We pay taxes on our car fuel. They are the same taxes the rich pay. Did I miss any other taxes a lower income citizen may pay regardless of their income?
Don't get me wrong. My family is happy to pay our taxes. That money has gone towards our parents' military retirement checks, my husband's own military pay along with all other service members' pay (and medical care), my son's and all other public school students' educations. We are even happy to pay the 12% (quite tiny, if you ask us) of our total taxes that goes towards various welfare programs. In fact, we wish more of our money went towards those programs because we feel it is better to pay for saving lives than it is to pay for taking lives. But that is just us.
I find the idea that lower income citizens do not pay any taxes quite ignorant and repulsive. I have paid my taxes and I endorse this blog post.
What is the most important issue(s) to you when you decide on how to vote for president?
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Comments (67)
taxes yes are important. nuke power is important too.
i dont like talking about my own personal tax issues.
When you are signing away 50+% of your income to the government and are getting no tangible federal benefits and then you watch as your money is fed to both less fortunate and lazy ass whiny low class with little virtue and ambition, you might just want to slap the crap out of anyone that for higher taxes or less tax breaks.
Besides it's proven that Federal programs that run off taxes are ineffective and once they are on the payroll are nigh impossible to get rid off.
Why states should run themselves so all the money is not wasted
@Lukethe3@xanga - "lazy ass" low class? Honey, I was working 60+ hours each week and was STILL under the poverty line. I was definitely NOT "lazy". I was working double shifts AND going to college. And you know what? 50% of my income WAS going to taxes. Without these government programs, many people would starve to death or die from lack of healthcare. Everyone always complains about welfare programs that help out the poor people, but they never seem to complain about corporate welfare, which is where the majority of their taxes go.
Now that my family is fortunate enough to have a good income, I have no problem at all paying out taxes to help those who are living in poverty.
Bla bla bla. For every hard working poor person. There are a thousand lazy people who can't even stretch their arms out for the mail on check day. Believe me. Well, maybe on check day. That is the one day a mail man doesn't have to worry about getting bit by a dog.
I would just like to smack the morons that keep harping on "Joe the plumber" when they don't have the first clue how "Joe" lives. Hint: Joe doesn't have to worry about which house he'll be staying at this Summer: he only has ONE and he might not even "have" [own] that one! I don't know a single person (or family) that makes over $250k. (Perhaps the owners of the company that I work for, but I don't know them personally; only by face and reputation.) Frankly, I don't even look at the breakdowns on my paycheck stubs anymore. Between taxes and the premiums for crappy insurance coverage? It's depressing.
I took many things into consideration when voting: taxes, insurance, our freedoms; seperation of church and state, school programs, etc..
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
This is the first time I'm old enough to vote in a Presidential election. I'm not an expert, but I'm to be informed and consider various issues. I don't agree 100% with any candidate, but I'm going to vote for the person I agree with more than the other(s).
Again, thanks for sharing. I enjoyed your post.
-- Jedi Master 713
misleading. because
we owed an extra $500 at the end of the year.
was that state or federal income tax?
we still always seem to owe more on state taxes. obama and mc cain are not talking about state tax. they are talking about federal income tax.
As for state and federal income taxes, my husband and I have paid into Social Security, Medicare, and income tax as long as we have been married.
everyone up to certain amount pay social security, and other taxes that our entitlement policies have put in.
Regardless of one’s income, there is no escaping sales tax.
everyone pays income tax. if you have flat tax you wouldn't pay any income tax. just sales tax known as consumption tax.
To drive on any highway within a 50 mile radius of our home, we pay tolls, which is a tax.
once again it is not a exactly a tax. plus whether you have millions or thousands you still pay. it is a flat tax, consumption tax. you drive on it you pay.
While we do not own our home, “You betcha” we are paying property taxes through our rent. No landlord or commercial property owner is going to eat property taxes. They pass it on to their tennants.
landlord is in business. if you want cheap rent get a subsidized housing. if you want no rent get a cardboard box. during great depression many people did not pay property tax because they were living in a cardboard jungle.
when we pay for our utilities, we are paying all sorts of taxes on those bills. Has anyone out there other than me read all those bizarre taxes tacked on to electric, water, phone, and gas bills?
who put those taxes in? did you not hear obama say that coal fired power plants are going to go bankrupt because they are going to pay all these fines. majority of our electricity comes from coal plants. they are the cleanest in the world. he is against nuclear, drilling. how will you get your electricity? he even said we are going to be paying more for electricity.
We pay taxes on our car fuel.
obama will tax you more for the fuel. he is against people driving big cars. one way to stop people from driving big cars are to artificially increase price of gas. if the price of gasoline is low then how will he raise the price of gas? do you see people drive large cars in europe? if crude oil is the same price in the world then how come they pay so much for gasoline? TAXES!!!!
obama and mc cain are not talking about state and local taxes. they are talking about federal income tax. they are not talking about social security, medicare, and other entitlement taxes. just simply federal income tax. tell me how much federal income tax you paid.
oh yeah. only 1% of all tax filers make over $250k. 5% under 150k. take your choice of which obama will tax. he can not pay for all his spending by taxing only the top 5%. thank you for your service to the country. but obama is wrong for this country.
my most important issue is obama's relationship to wright, ayers, dohrn, acorn, cair, resco, moss, louis f, he is a radical leftist.
@Jedi_Master_713@xanga - I think that you said it best. "I don't agree 100% with any candidate, but I'm going to vote for the person I agree with more than the other(s)."
I think that is the position I find myself in. I don't agree totally with either one, but I do find one that annoys me slightly less than the other.
@Amyld@xanga - 50%? check your tax return. unless you were making $250k you wouldn't be paying that much. unless your local tax and state tax are real high. i think new jersey has the highest tax. i make $600 per week and they take $70. and i live in new jersey. so for you to be paying 50% is just ridiculous. are you in europe?
once you get into welfare iti s very hard to get out. it has been 30 years since war on poverty was declared. where are we now? many people are in poverty. why do we have slums when so much money are being spent? government run welfare programs do not work. they just keep on recycling them.
@bubbadirt@xanga - So you're fine with the billions going into corporate welfare? The majority of your taxes are going for that. "Bla bla bla"? Most of those "lazy poor people" have more class than you ever will and my 6 year old seems more mature. Have you ever had to live in poverty? Have you ever worked to help those who are? If not... you have no clue what you are talking about. Unless you have been there first hand, you really have NO idea. You don't strike me as the type who would be bothered to help out at a homeless shelter, or with any social service agency.
@supsoo@xanga - I was working two jobs. After it was all said and done, the taxes with both jobs combined was more than I was making at the second job. It did end up being about 50% of my income.
@supsoo@xanga - Wow. It is been quite a long time since I have seen anyone completely misread a blog post the way you have. It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
@SarahAriella@xanga - tell me what i misread?
obama can't even make up his mind about when life begins. let alone at what point to tax people.
@Amyld@xanga - i guess the more you earn in income the less tax you pay? how much were you making? i can't belive it. was it back in the seventies? when top income tax bracket was 90%
@supsoo@xanga - Too bad Obama endorses killing the unborn. Imagine the taxes he could get from them when they are 18.
Taxed 50% of your income? Obviously this person did not live in the United States. I too worked 2 jobs for a long time and was taxed 25% of my income on those 2 jobs. I'm thinking this person didn't know how to fill out their paperwork correctly. Oh, and yes, I have lived below poverty level, and yes,my family was on food stamps. Know what? We were not the typical welfare family because my parents actually attempted to find work. Social welfare programs are black holes...money goes in and nothing good comes from them. The entire system needs to be reformed and to start with, the government needs to start saying "NO!" Until then, my lower middle class family will be struggling to pay not only our bills but the mortgages of those people who couldn't even afford to buy the house they lost to begin with. As for helping out at homeless shelters, I don't. Most of those people live that way by choice. They choose to drink themselves into an early grave. They choose to be on drugs. They choose to panhandle. Ever refuse to give a homeless person money because you can smell the alcohol on their breath? Then be called a bitch because you refused? That's happened to me...I'm sorry, but get a job.
@Punk_Rock_Mommy@xanga - I live in Southern Cali and see homeless each and every day. Do you realize that most of those people are suffering from some sort of mental disorder? I doubt that anyone chooses to live in such a manner, but perhaps it is the state of our healthcare in this nation that has kept them where they are.
my father filed for bankruptcy less than ten years ago. we lost everything even the house we lived in. a year later i was to go to college. my older brother was in college. my younger brother would be goingto college with me. my father did not say why did this happen? you know what him and i did? i went to flea market every saturday, sunshine, rain, snow, hail. for over a year. they couldn't even give me any money for lunch. my brothers went hungry. we didn't buy clothes. we understood where we stood. rather than take on welfare my family worked hard. my father started to work in a dry cleaner. my mom went back to nail. my brothers worked. we worked our way. my father's health is declining. i studied the best i could. now in ten years we are not rich but my father and i run a dry cleaner of our own. my mom has a nail saloon. my brother is going to nursing school. i graduated with an engineering degree. my older brother is working. we live modestly. we don't even havea flat screen tv. no cable tv. but remember we never went on food stamp, welfare, or other programs. we did not consider it. it never crossed our mind. we knew that this stage in our life was a passing storm. no one really helped us. we did it on our own. we are more proud of it because we did it ourselves. that is the american dream. welfare is not charity. you want people to get out poverty? you make them work. i can't find a diligent, trustworthy person to work. i am willing to pay at least $400 a week. you are telling me that those homeless people are out on the street because they can't find a job? there are many jobs. so don't give me that be charitable. obama and biden gave less than 6% and 1% respectively. they make millions. yet they want us to be charitable and pay more taxes too. tell me how that is more charitable.
@Amyld@xanga - if you are going to lie about your tax rate then at least make it reasonable. 50% of tax filers do not pay any federal income tax. if you said 30% i would be like ok. but 50%? please we are not europe. maybe you included sales tax. tolls. and taxes on utility bills? yeah. did you tithe too? that adds 10%.
@gwacemom - san francisco is a homeless heaven. they are for people shooting up in parks. they give them food. they give them everything. yes they have a mental disorder. they are liberals. as michael savage says liberalism is a mental disorder. i would be homeless too if i was shooting up, drunk, and had no hope. instead i keep away from drugs. i work hard. i hope that tomorrow will be better than today. yes. i do have a heart. i feel for them. oh yeah san francisco is heaven for druggies, prostitutes, homosexuality. they tax you to death. tell me otherwise. new york has same problems as san francisco but we don't have rampant drug problem. homeless, prostitution. i have not seen needles in our parks, i don't have to step over homeless. i have yet to see a prostitute. see the point? it is the policies that one city has that makes the two cities so different. please if you want to help the homeless go to europe they have a plenty of them. or better yet go to rwanda, sudan. they don't have any homes. yeah. leave us alone to this great land. we don't need obama. we need ourselves.
@gwacemom - I have lived in Chicago and Washington D.C. My aunt was schizophrenic and would periodically stop taking her meds and fall off the face of the earth only to be found homeless somewhere. The majority of homeless people I have encountered are drug addicted or alcohol addicted. The majority of those living at the Salvation Army shelter where I currently live are alcoholics who work the system to eat for free and panhandle for money to buy alcohol or drugs. The homeless that I have spoken with have told me that they have no intention of getting a job. There is so much spin on this issue. Constantly giving the handout is not useful. It perpetuates the problem. And that is where we are. And the middle class will continue to foot the bill.
who are you guys to say how much this person did or did not pay in taxes?! "no, you didn't pay that much." um, i think she probably knows better than you do.
@Punk_Rock_Mommy@xanga - about a third of homeless people have one or more untreated psychiatric illnesses. you seem to have had some bad experiences with homeless people, and that sucks, but that gives you no right to judge all of them, or to say that they "choose" to live that way. it is true that there are some who do, but your choice to not help any of them is disappointing. you have no idea what these peoples' stories are, where they came from, who they are. judging them is unfair and unkind, and judging an entire group of people based on a few experiences is the epitome of prejudice. they're people, not trash to be discriminated against and written off.
@supsoo@xanga - Ourselves?? I think that up to now we haven't exactly done such a fantastic job of taking care of things. I don't feel the need to leave this country, but thanks for the invite.
I for one have not taken a political stand during these discussions, I simply think that saying that all homeless are drugged out drunks is wrong. Many of these people have serious mental issues that should have been addressed years ago.