Friday, 10 October 2008

  • Homeschool Socializing Myth

    Mama Foxby Mama Fox

    (Disclaimer: Ethan is feeling a bit off today so between him climbing all over me and whining and  the boys asking for drinks and snacks this seriously took me 2 hours to type up. And wouldn't ya know, right about the time I finished Ethan finally went to sleep.Geez. So excuse me if it's not as coherent as I wanted it to be.)

    Oh did ya know that homeschool children are social misfits? How do they learn to live in society when the only people they see are their parents and siblings? ... Is there a food slot in the basement door?

    I'm sure there are those few families that truly do hole up in their house and never really leave, but that is definitely not the norm. Unless you lock your kids in the basement, they will be socialized just fine. Just living life will bring you in contact with many people.

    Got a question for you, do you feel that spending 8 hours a day, 170 days a year with 25 or 30 of their peers and one adult is good for their socialization? For more than 7 hours, they aren't really even supposed to talk to each other then there's bullying and little cliques at recess. There's also all the bad habits and words that your darling social butterfly brings home. Oh the JOY!

    I just really don't like the argument "But, oh, how will they be socialized?!" It didn't make sense to me even before I decided to homeschool. Being in school is no guarantee that your kids will be socialized (in a good way anyway) any more that homeschooling will make kids into shy, timid, sheltered people.

    Children in school, being separated into age groups, rarely have the chance to interact with kids outside of their peer group. How do THEY learn to function in society when they have no experience with other ages? Could you imagine applying for a job and being turned down because they are only hiring 29 year olds? Society isn't separated into age groups.

    I can understand organizational wise schools need to be but I do not think that it is good for socialization. I'm not saying that kids will turn into little barbarians because they go to public school. Outside of school activities are great for both schooled and homeschool children. I just don't want to hear "they won't be socialized"  whenever the topic of homeschooling comes up.

    I am fairly new to officially homeschooling but I have done my research. I have been reading through everything I can get a hold of about homeschooling for the last 3 years. Socialization is a question that comes up quite a bit with those thinking about homeschooling or just started. The answer is pretty much repeated over and over (after a little bit of inner laughter): "Your kids will be fine. Just live life."

    Just think about who you at least acknowledge outside of work on any given day. There's neighbors, other customers and cashiers at stores, extended family, friends. Just during a trip to the library yesterday, my oldest said hi and got a response from 5 different people. We also had a play date that morning where he was busy telling the 3 other adults about his flying car and shared toys with the 3 children (ages 4 months, 6 months and 20 months).

    There are so many opportunities to get that socialization everyone is worried about. Homeschool groups, 4-H club, Boy and Girl Scouts, church youth groups, neighborhood friends. You can go places like museums, parks and zoos to meet people. Enroll your kids in drama classes, karate, swim lessons, gymnastics. With so much to do and so much free time not spent in school, why would you stay at home all the time? And everything you do brings as in contact with society.

    We are out enjoying life and meet interesting people along the way. How's that for socializing?

Comments (89)

  • laytexduckie@xanga

    Well, to me, I don't really have a problem with homeschooling. I have a few friends who were homeschooled and they turned out fine. The only argument I do have against homeschooling is the preparedness of events out in the real world. And usually, public school is where I had to deal with most of it. My middle and high school were decent schools. I, however, learned how to deal with bullies, how to interact more in depth with people of different cultures, and almost participate in clubs where many others enjoy the same thing. I'm sure that many parents who homeschool don't shelter their kids. And I do agree that there are bad influences out there. But it is part of the learning process on how to deal with such situations. It helps build their confidence to say no to something they know is wrong (If they needed advice or opinions, they would always come to you first).

    And you don't really just associated with people the same age. There are after school activities or sports teams of different age groups mixed in together.

  • alleygoop@xanga

    I was half homeschooled (age 0-12), half public school (age 13-18). I would have taken the homeschooling over public school any day. Public school in America is mainly about crowd control and state influence. We didn't even *have* public school until recently in US history. And what do we get from it? Teachers having sex with students. Students bringing guns into schools and killing each other. Drugs being trafficked in schools. Hazing. Bullying. Theft. Vandalism. And so on. What did we get with homeschooling? A lot more accomplished in society! I agree with the opening post, and I add my own comment to it: being shuttled like cattle for over 7 hours a day in one building, day in, day out, is not only not socially healthy, but it's also not academically healthy, and is turning out stupider and stupider generations. Just what our country needs in a time when we're going to be handing it over to them in the coming few decades... :(

  • chosenandblessed@xanga

    Kids get plenty of socialization in public schools alright... the wrong kind of socialization! You are hearing this straight from the mouth of a public- school certified teacher! I hope to make a difference in public schools, which is why I want to be there. The issue is not socialization when it comes to homeschooling. I am confident that children whose parents are willing to homeschool them are very capable of making sure their children live a well- balanced life. The bigger problem is the children in the public schools that have no socialization of thier family. In other words, their parents couldn't give a rip. Unfortunately, that is the overwhelming majority of parents in my area. I wish they had half the intrest in their children that it takes to homeschool a child. These kids don't know how to socialize because thier parents have never taught them. Anyway, that is a whole different topic. I think that family relationships are extremely important and the foundation for all other relationships. Even if children never see anyone except their own family, in my opinion, that is still adequate socialization. But really, how many people are that withdrawn? The kids will get plenty of social time outside of thier home, especially if they get involved in sports or homeschool groups. Lets stop worrying about the social lives of well cared for children and start worrying more about kids that don't have anyone to care about them outside of their public school!

  • tortallcit@xanga

    I really think it has to do with the age of the kids... up until 9th grade I can completely understand why a parent would want to homeschool their children because it really can help them get ahead in coursework and the emotional trauma that I blame middle school for really isn't worth it.
        I really do think kids should go to a public high school though. Not because of being "socialized" as much as learning how to cope with people they aren't used to, and learning how to manage a busy schedule. Depending on the high school there are some really good programs too (Model UN, Theater, Health tech classes are great for colleges if they want to be doctors, sports, leadership oppurtunities ect...) And really learning how to live up to different peoples expectations.

    *on a side note, going to public high school might also make applying for colleges much easier but I don't know about this one.

       I understand that there is still a ton of negative socialization, but as deplorable as it sounds, I think a little negative socialization is good for you so that your first day of college you aren't completely confused when you don't understand "That's what she said!" Kids need the opportunity to make bad choices so you'll know they will make good ones after they're out of your hands.

  • HawaiianHeldts@xanga

    Awesome post! My husband and I are both teachers (though I am home with my 3 currently) and the closer we get to school age, the closer I am to homeschooling. Especially in our area where we are a minority and the schools are HORRIBLE! Both academically and socially! There are SOOOO many places to have your child "socialize" with others are you stated and what I like about those "other areas" such as the library, play groups, church, sports, etc....is that YOU can monitor the socializing! I realize that children will have to learn to defend themselves and stand up for themselves and deal with different types of people, but it is never to late to learn those lessons. My children have to learn those things from our neighbors! But you know, it's better when he can come home right away and let me know what is going on and I can explain how we should react or maybe why that person is behaving badly and also deal with the offender directly and instantly rather that hearing about it hours later about some kid I don't know!  

  • wherever_we_go@xanga

    I home school my 5 children.


    They are the only kids in the street that are happy to play with any age group.


    The older ones in the street wont play with the little ones, and the little ones are a pain to the big ones...


    My kids are able to transcend the gaps and be a friend to the little ones and the big ones.


    That is when I let them out of the closet long enough to interact.........


    x

    @tortallcit@xanga - I
    agree that there is a very important element to a little negative
    socialization, but you don't have to go to school 6+ hours a day to
    find it. 


    I also agree that kids need to learn to stand on their own feet and be
    faced with those situations.....  these are important life skills, but
    again you don't have to go to school to find it.

  • bassangel@xanga

    @alleygoop@xanga - I just want to point out that guns and sex with students are not in every school. You also have the weigh the socioeconomic standings of a school. One that caters to kids that grow up with heavy violence will be different then one that is stuck in suburbia. And if you want to say that we hear more and more about it, it is mostly because the media (Left and right wing media outlets) will sit there and relentlessly talk about it. Not in a constructive 'how-can-we-fix-this-problem' but in a way that blames celebrities, video games and music. If a kid shoots up a school and listened to Eminem, Beethoven and the Beatles. Which one do you think they would judge that kid by? Well of course it would be Beethoven! How radical he was to make a symphony with 5 movements instead of four! My case in point, not all schools have those problems and making generalizations like that only perpetuate the problem. And while I see nothing wrong with homeschooling and have even thought about keeping my children out of elementary school and part of middle school at the same time there are experiences within a good school system that you can not get in homeschooling.

    If I choose to homeschool through at least elementary school it will be because I have seen elementary students and I would not want to add to some of the overcrowding that happens in elementary schools. By the time my kids are old enough for middle school I would consider letting them go for certain classes. Like gym, music, art and shop. These are classes that I can see a definite advantage to taking with other students their age. Gym promotes health and teamwork. Music, while I can give many lessons on music (I played and studied bass, violin, cello and viola for a decade and have even written a few compositions) it is an enjoyable class to take with friends. Art is not a strong point for myself but i have found memories of trying to be good at it and the same with shop. My idea would be to send them to our Catholic Highschool when they are freshman. I believe that would be the point that I could no longer teach them.

  • itscatwithak@xanga

    I went to public school, then after years of begging was finally allowed to be homeschooled for high school.  I went to a rural school so there were no opportunities at the school besides sports and choir/band.  There were no health tech classes or anything that was challenging or interesting in the least bit.  In school I hardly socialized because the kids in my grade level were very immature and mean and I wasn't willing to be a b***h just to fit in.  I don't think I suffered at all from being homeschooled for high school, if anything I wish I had been homeschooled sooner.  By being homeschooled I was finally able to be challenged academically, and as for socialization I had lots of it, from home school groups, volunteering and just plain being out in public.  Now I am a college junior, majoring in psychology and minoring in anthropology/sociology.  I have not had any issues in college from being homeschool, instead I have received lots of praise from teachers on how self disciplined I am and what great quality of work I do.  I have a gpa of 3.93 and consider myself to be a well adjusted adult.  So I definitely do not think that socialization is an issue with being homeschooled, instead I think homeschooling makes children better adjusted then their public school peers.  Now I will admit that some children to excel in public school and that's fine, but if public school isn't working for a child I see nothing wrong with them being homeschooled.

  • Punk_Rock_Mommy@xanga

    For us, homeschooling is a great option.  It fits in with what we want our kids taught--morally and education-wise.  We can tailor the curriculum to suit their needs and interests.  We can work with them one on one when they are struggling.  And, where we live, there is a co-op that many older homeschoolers go to where they are taught subjects like chemistry by a retired chemical engineer, for example.  As for socialization, I was told to read the book "I Saw the Angel in the Marble" (thank you, wherever_we_go) and it had some great arguments for homeschooling.  Many of which have been pointed out here--if we are raising adults, then shouldn't adults be the primary group our kids spend time with.  If I want my children to have my values, shouldn't they spend more time with me rather than 30 kids their own age.  When I think of my own experience, I had lots of acquaintances in school and only one really good friend.  And, guess where we spent the most time together?  Outside of school.  For us, in the current education climate, public schools are not an option and we aren't about to pay $6,000 a year per child to send them to a a Christan school that takes in kids who've been expelled from public schools.  

  • cjamos@xanga

    The biggest down fall of homeschooling is parents not being honest to themselves about their own strengths.  I have been having a debate with myself if I have the organization skills and disaplin to homeschool.  At a resent play group I told another mom that I wasn't planning on Sending M to 3yr old preschool and I was going to prepare her at home and send her to another type of class like tumbling.  She had a very negative reaction but I still think that will be right for her at lest for the preschool ages.  More reserch is needed for the older grades.  Good luck to everyone strugling to make the right decision for them and there kids.  Are some kids beter suited for homeschooling?

  • eclectic_eccentric@xanga

    Thank you!
    I have been hearing this ever since my mom started homeschooling me in 5th grade. And I had Plenty of socialization! I had great friends at Church, 4-h and co-op. I did 2 plays every year and was out with friends every Friday night in Highschool. Most importantly, I leaned (as other moms here have pointed out) how to be friends with people who are not my own age. Sure, I knew a few "weird" socially awkward types, but you know what, they married others of their kind and are happily homeschooling their own kids!
    What really gets me is what it says about our society that everyone is more concerned with kids' "socialization" than with their education! You don't go to school to get socialized, you go to get educated! If you can do a better job of educating at home, you owe it to your kids.

  • XxFireXboltxX@xanga

    I was homeschooled my entire schooling experience. I was one of "those kids" who started the trend I think. My mom began homeschooling my brother and I in the 80's. A lot of people didn't even know what it was!

    I have turned out totally fine. My brother and I NEVER had issues socializing with other kids. In fact, him and I both felt more prepared entering the college and workforce than some of our friends who went to public school. We KNEW how to interact with adults when we were little kids. We understood various age groups and how the dynamics worked.

    He has a son with his wife and she went to public school, but they have both decided to homeschool their son. My first baby is on the way and I told my husband, before we got married, that when we had kids, they would be homeschooled. It wasn't even a question.

    I have SEEN the benefits of it from my personal life and from that of my friends. I am self-motivated to get things done and I definitely don't have issues socializing.

    Keep it up!!! :) Your kids will thank you for it later!!!

  • ZJiff30@xanga

    @tortallcit@xanga -  I definitely have to disagree with you.  I was very socialized, and VERY busy in high school.  Between college courses, sports at the local Christian high school, band, and all my activities at church and in the community on top of all my high school work, I was VERY busy.  I dealt with all sorts of people, including those I wouldn't normally associate with, and it just enhanced my desire to work with people.


    I had several full-ride scholarship offers to college, but in fairness, some schools (though not too many) will scrutinize you more closely.


    The level of socialization in homeschooling is entirely as much as parents want to make it.  My parents definitely wanted me to know how to function in the outside world, so they made sure I had plenty of opportunities.

  • tjordanm@xanga
  • filtered_sunlight

    @chosenandblessed@xanga - Props to you. I'm seeing this a lot with the school-aged kids. Most parents seem to view public school as 'free day care' and don't really care about the cattle kids they're herding into it. It's sad to me and I'm definitely thinking twice about throwing my daughter into the middle of it and 'hoping for the best'.

    @eclectic_eccentric@xanga - 'What really gets me is what it says about our society that everyone is more concerned with kids' "socialization" than with their education! You don't go to school to get socialized, you go to get educated!' -- Well stated! I'm seeing that with friends' children now and I witnessed it first-hand during my time served in public school...they don't go to school to learn, they go because they want to hang out with their friends and they're so distracted by the friends in their classes that they're really not learning as much as they should be. I was a loner in public school and I was always at the top of my class. I don't think it was a coincidence.

  • brownalpaca@xanga

    @chosenandblessed@xanga - Right on!  Family *is* the foundation; unfortunately children these days have a shaky, ever changing start with day-care at 3 mo. 

  • brownalpaca@xanga

    @ZJiff30@xanga - I'm glad to hear you had a good start and a good experience;unfortunately not everyone does- In fact, most people have many obstacles and demeaning events occur thorughout school that leaves them forever remembering school with negativity.  IMO you were one who had probobly the foundation of favorable genes, personality, brains and support and not too bad of a school that resulted in a good experience.


    the author of this article is making a great point in saying that too many schools today involve such socialization types that arent reality-based and natural, nor are they conducive to creating healthy self-esteem. 


    Obviously the main point is to stop the ridiculous assumption that homeschoolers hole-up their kids.  My experience with outsiders asking about our homeschooling has shown me that this common missunderstanding about homeschooling reveals peoples prejudice and ignorance.  I mean really, Why would any parent who is taking the time and energy and foregoing the outside income they could otherwise be bringing home want to keep their child from experiencing the world???!!!   See, it makes no sense and to assume that we would be doing somethng so nonesensical is degrading.

  • ZJiff30@xanga

    @brownalpaca@xanga - You're probably right.  At the risk of sounding arrogant, I do tend to grasp educational concepts quicker than most, and I do have a naturally outgoing personality. 


    For the record, I don't disagree with anything you said.  I was simply trying to agree that homeschooling does not automatically equal hermitage, and show from my own personal experience that it can happen.

  • Punk_Rock_Mommy@xanga

    @cjamos@xanga - I think some kids are better suited for homeschooling.  We are going to play it by ear.  If at any time one of the kids would do better in public/private school, we'll make the switch.  Each kid has their own learning style.  So you have to adjust to that.  My husband and I are both college educated (not that someone without a college education couldn't homeschool--I'm not saying that at all), and we are wanting to do more of a classical education for our kids.  I'm confidant we could do it.  But if there is a subject I can't teach (like higher level math), I'm going to hook my kids up with someone who can.

  • Punk_Rock_Mommy@xanga

    @ZJiff30@xanga - Before I moved here, my experience with homeschool families was limited.  And those that I knew, well, the kids were plain weird.  I worked with one girl who had zero people skills.  Then, I moved here a few years ago and met all sorts of families who homeschool.  What I found was that in my previous experience, the kids were weird and "backward" because the parents were weird and backward.  It had nothing to do with the choice of homeschooling.  It has lots to do with the parents and what exactly they are teaching their kids.  I also worked with kids who were "homeschooled" and couldn't write a sentence.  They weren't really homeschooled though.  They didn't want to go to school, so mom and dad let them stay home and "do school" but not really.

  • averyswife@xanga

    Mega props, Mama Fox, you preach it! I never went to a "real" school a day in my life and I turned out all right.  I did well in college too.

  • purplecrayons96@xanga

    You know, I go back and forth on this, I go to a church where 50% or more of the kids are homeschooled.  I know they are well socialized, I know they are smart kids, I know that the families are doing what they feel God called their families to do.  Our church also has a Christian School that we support and run as a ministry of our church.  It is a wonderful school, my husband went there Pre-school through 12th grade, our kids all go to pre-school there, my daughter went there through 1st grade.  It is an awesome school.  We send our kids to public school.  We have our reasons but the utmost one is that we feel like it is what God has led our family to do at this time.  Do we reevaluate what we are doing each year?  Yes... if it wasn't working would I pull them and try something new, yes... I think the thing that bothers me is when it feels like others assume I don't have my child's best interest at heart for sending them to public school.  I know we are following God's will and I know that other families who homeschool or private school are following God's will for their family.  If you don't believe in God and you homeschool, well, you do it because you have their best interest at heart right?  Just please remember that when discussing other's schooling issues, the majority of the people love their children and are doing what they deem best for them whatever that may be.  I personally a lot of the arguments for or against whatever schooling a family chooses come from fear of the unknown.  I personally have witnissed that in my own family when we chose to send them to public school.  Do we have issues we are working through?  Yes, would we have issues we were working through no matter where we were?  Yes, I firmly believe we would... I have two strong-willed children (and two that are angels haha!!) and we would be working through our issues no matter where we are.  Just like it stings homeschoolers though to be accused of not wanting to socialize their kids, it stings me to read about how people thing that schools are all about sex, and guns and cattle-pushing.  Get to know someone and their reasons behind their decision and it won't seem as scary.  Not that I would ever try to sway someone to doing what my family is doing... it's what's good for us.  What you do, is good for you and I am just happy that there are parents who love their children enough to sacrifice time, money, whatever it is that you give to your children through their schooling experience... and we ALL do.  If we are not involved parents in their schooling, that is where the trouble starts no matter what school you are in.

  • Razor851@xanga

    If a home schooled child can get out of the house enough I'm sure they could turn out just fine. I didn't enjoy my high school all that much because my peers were far too immature for me. 

  • brownalpaca@xanga

    @ZJiff30@xanga -  Oh i'm sorry- i did get that your were not anti-HS and did not clarify that as i went on to make my point about the article.

  • LostPage@xanga

    I love homeschooling

    public school was crap

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