Tuesday, 02 September 2008

  • Morning Chat: Do Fetal Abnormalities Justify Abortion?

    Nurse Jenna by Nurse Jenna

    Last week the news was abuzz with the announcement of John McCain’s Vice Presidential candidate Sarah Palin, the Governor of Alaska. Right to Life advocates applauded her decision to have her now 4 month old son, despite the prenatal diagnosis of Down Syndrome. She stated there was never any hesitation that she would carry her baby to term even though the condition had been detected within the legal time frame to abort the pregnancy.

    Though I am pro-choice, I do find it refreshing that someone (especially someone in politics) practices what they preach. More times than not this is not the case, as we saw with Elliot Spitzer who prosecuted prostitutes, but then he himself was caught spending exorbitant amounts of money on an escort. This is just one of many such examples of political pretense. People are entitled to their beliefs in this country, but nothing angers me more than a hypocrite. Sarah Palin, at least by all accounts, has made life choices consistent with her political rhetoric. 

    I digress a bit from my planned topic—a bit of information about how Down Syndrome and other potential genetic anomalies are diagnosed and then the difficult decisions parents must make about whether or not to continue a pregnancy. An amniocentesis can be performed for many reasons, one of which is to check for fetal abnormalities. The procedure involves inserting a needle through the abdomen, into the uterus and amniotic sac under ultrasound guidance. A sample of the amniotic fluid is drawn up through the needle and used to check fetal cells that can indicate neural tube defects or chromosomal anomalies, such as Down syndrome. This is usually done between 16 and 18 weeks gestation.

    If the fetus shows an abnormality, the critical decision must be made whether to continue or terminate the pregnancy. It is a difficult decision— if continued, the quality of life of both the child and the family can be severely compromised. Though for many, terminating a pregnancy may clash with moral or religious values, regardless of the circumstance.

    Do you think a fetal abnormality is a justifiable reason to abort a pregnancy? If you are pro-life, would you want to know ahead of time if your baby was going to have any medical or developmental conditions?

Comments (288)

  • DrTiff@xanga

    @myfate22@xanga -  I understand.  I think most people have a clear stand on the issue when it comes to their own lives, but then the murky area is where the law or courts should stand.  For me, being 'pro-choice' just means not trying to make that decision for every other woman, not knowing her circumstances...  

  • xcntrychicka@xanga

    I am pro-life, but I would have an abortion if my baby could not survive outside of the womb. I saw a story once where the fetus had a deformity where it's brain was developing outside of it's head. I could not in good conscience give birth to a child who would not and could not survive outside the womb. These are extreme cases. 


    In my mind, to abort a child just because it had Down's syndrome, Cerebral Palsy, or any other disease is wrong. Every child deserves a chance to life.
  • leslieburditt@xanga

    @Chesschick01@xanga - i understand that but think of those poor babies who are missing part of their brain or have a tumor growing somewhere that cannot be removed. Believe it or not, I am Pro-LIFE!

  • alaskamommy@xanga

    I won't even have any test done unless whatever they test for is something that can be treated and made better.  If they are just testing to tell me something is going to be wrong with my child for life (and they usually just want to do this so the motehr will have the "choice" to abort), then that is a test I refuse. 


  • Isismoon@xanga

    It should be up to the family involved.  I do not think I would abort but if the baby was going to suffer then maybe.  I think it is kind of weird that Palin had amnio because it carries a miscarriage risk.I am pro-chioce and did not have the test.  There are many other pro-choice women who commented on my blog that they did the same thing.   Is she so inflexible/control freakish that she had to risk miscarriage to prepare herself?  It bothers me that she is using lives to promote herself politically too.  She has great health care but for someone who does not then a DS baby could have many expensive health problems with a so-so quality of life.  My friends who work with mentally challenged people say that with DS comes a certain amount of frustration, medical problems and general unhappiness as an adult. They often rely on Social Security to get by and yet her party spent it all to cover up their tax cuts for the rich starting with Reagan.  So I think pro-life Republicans are hypocrites. 

  • kara_b_1983@xanga

    There is NEVER any justification for aborting a baby.  If you don't want to have a baby then just don't have sex.  Yeah, it's just that simple!

  • Isismoon@xanga

    @kara_b_1983@xanga - well tell that to Bristol's boyfriend because he doesn't want kids.  Guys like him need to be locked up or castrated or something. 

  • Jessysue@xanga

    In my mind, it is exactly the same as going into a special needs classroom and killing a 5 year old child with Downs Syndrom.  The reasons are the same: inconvience and hardship for all involved. 
    Everyone who reads this comment will find that statement awful, and they should.  That would be considered murder.
    So what's the difference?
    If God were to place a child in my womb and I knew he/she was going to have Downs, I have no choice but to do my very, very best to care for that child to the best of my ability, with help, if necessary.  If I am unable to care for him/her,  I would feel compelled to give my baby to a family who could.
    We refused that test on my son.  If I were blessed enough to deliver a baby with a heartbeat, he was going to be loved and cared for. 
    God does not screw up.  If He made a baby with different mental capabilites than myself and personally gave them to me, who am I to say 'No?'  It is a heavenly job.


    I know many people disagree with me, and I don't try to help that.  A mind is reared by it's convictions.  This is mine.

  • kara_b_1983@xanga

    @Isismoon@xanga - I don't know why yo sent me this comment...

  • kara_b_1983@xanga

    @Jessysue@xanga - I totally agree with you and have the same convictions.

  • Godstimingisalwaysbest@xanga

    Not at all!  No matter what that child may have...its not our decision to end our baby's life...the creator Himself only has that choice...maybe the baby might only live a few hours or days because of the abnormality/disease but maybe God intended to use that baby in that amount of time for something bigger and better and a blessing that you might see then or years later down the road...but if a person were to end their baby's life because of a threatening abnormality/disease...they could be missing out of a beautiful blessing in disguise from God or a miracle or whatever else God has in store for them...God's ways are not our ways and His plans are beautiful and perfect and many times we dont understand them but we just trust Him!

  • SoAnonyMiss@xanga

    @Casbahmaniac@xanga - I completely agree...


    @Amyld@xanga - and I agree with this as well.  Only the mother carrying the child can justify whether or not the child should be born, fetal abnormality or no, and the decision is solely hers. People should be able to choose what they will. Part of being an adult is making a decision and dealing with whatever consequences come as a result of the decision that was made. I'm pro-choice and believe that whatever the reason, a woman should be able to terminate an unwanted prenancy.

  • Isismoon@xanga
  • HisLadyofVirtue@xanga

    I have ALWAYS waived the right to the aniosentisi proceedure.  I am pro-choice, but my choice is life.  I would never have an abortion, and so for me to havre this proceedure would just cause undue stress on the fetus and myself if something WAS wrong.  I would rather not know, and have a stress free pregnancy, then find out, carry the baby to term (which I would do regardless opf the results) and then deal with the fact that my life is going to have to change DRASTICALLY.  But that is just how I would handle it.  I can completely understand why parents would want to know!

  • sayboo@xanga

    I think that I would want to have an amniocentesis done so that I could be informed about abnormalities that my baby might have and prepare for them, but I would never use that information to consider terminating my baby's life.

  • Jessysue@xanga

    Just a thought...
    Because of the reasons people are giving (that they think people should be able to choose what they want), I have a question:  How far does that belief reach? 
    What if someone, who was not able to have children, saw your child walking with you in a store and thought bitterly, "It's not fair that I can't have kids, and she has plenty.  I'll just take one of hers." 
    or...
    What if your son, forbid it all, drove drunk and crashed into a family van, killing all the children and leaving the parents?  What if then, the outraged father or mother, in their anger and vengence, shot your son to death to pay him back? 

    Didn't each of these individuals make their own 'choice?'  Does that make their choice right?  Should there not be laws and rules to protect citizens and lives from the poor choices of others?  When choices people make involve taking the life of another human, there must be laws against and consequences for that choice.
    Why is a murderer, who felt like raping and killing a young woman, behind bars and a young woman, whose life would be 'messed up' by giving birth thereby kills the life inside her, any different?  Both were choices.  Both took a life.  Why is there a law against one and not against the other?
    There simply MUST be a standard set and followed to have a peaceful, safe and happy society.  Having laws that keep us from making bad choices does not mean we are in bondage.  We are a free country because of these rules. 

    I love WonderofTruth's point.

  • HoneyandSaliva@xanga

    You can't just decide that because your baby isn't going to turn out good enough that you don't want it.


    If you make the active decision to become pregnant, or even if you just fucked around and got pregnant unintentionally, abortion shouldn't be a solution to not having to deal with the child you created.

  • Luv2BMama@xanga

    I don't think abortion is ever okay.  I have known 2 seperate cases where the mother was told there was going to be something wrong with the baby and given the chance to choose an abortion.  Luckily both of these women chose life for their baby, and both had perfectly normal, healthy babies.  You just can't always trust tests.  If that baby wasn't meant to live, your body would have miscarried it on it's own, it's a natural process.  Who are we to step in the way of nature and play God?

  • Chesschick01@xanga

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    @leslieburditt@xanga - I used to work with a woman who was missing an arm and it
    had been like that since birth. She was a wonderful women who worked just as
    hard as any one else, she got married and now she has two wonderful twins a boy
    and a girl.  Now, if her mother had aborted her because she was missing
    body parts, then she would have never been able to watch her daughter grow into
    such a wonderful women.

    Another example is my cousin. She found out early in one of her pregnancy that
    most of the baby’s body parts were on the outside of her body, she could have
    died carrying this baby to term. But she had hope and faith and decided to carry
    the baby to term. The baby did not make it. But my cousin went on to have three
    more beautiful babies.

    My own example is when I was carrying my son. He was missing a vessel in his umbilical
    cord while I was carrying him. He was not growing properly and he was not
    getting enough blood. The doctors warned me of possible side effects and I
    still decided to carry him. The day he was born he came out barely breathing
    and had to be rushed to the nicu.here is a link to the photo:http://photo.xanga.com/Chesschick01/e5241209368677/photo.html

     now he is a healthy and happy 2 year old.

     http://photo.xanga.com/chesschick01/583b5202716253/photo.html?rewrite=true#filmstriptitle

    I think the point I am try to make is that it does not always turn out bad. Even
    when given a bad diagnosis.

  • SeeBeeWrite@xanga

    The pregnant woman knows if she is has the means to care for a child with disabilities, and she knows if she is even capable of giving birth to and giving away a baby with disabilities.

    http://uncommonmisconception.typepad.com/home/2005/04/out_of_the_dark.html

    Not everything is black and white, and it's a hard decision for anybody to make.

  • Isismoon@xanga

    @kara_b_1983@xanga - What I am really saying is that it is easier said than done and we need to not be extremists.  People do have sex and young people do even if raised to think it isn't right.  We need to be open to people's life situations and not make blanket statements.  People do not always think through the consequences, esp when young.

  • mamabutterfly

    I am 100% Pro-Life. I do not think there is any justifiable reason to have an abortion. I can never figure out pro-abortion thinking, honestly. Some of the prochoice people I've known adamantly claim that life does not begin until birth, and then those same people mourn the loss of a baby via miscarriage for themselves or those close to them. A little contradicting, if you ask me.


    As for not wanting a baby to be born and have to go through multiple surgeries, etc, I completely understand that, but still don't think it's reason enough to have an abortion. One of my very best friends from highschool was born with a disability. She is one of the strongest people I've ever known and although her life is filled with surgeries, therapy, pain and discomfort, she would never in a million years wish that she wasn't born. I truly believe that the world is a better place because of her and I can't imagine how many people just like her have been robbed of life simply because parents didn't want to deal with them. How horrible.


    My heart goes out to those who have had abortions. I have a friend who works in counseling and she always says that you would be amazed at how many women have to undergo post-abortion couseling because they miss their baby so much and are haunted by their choice. The few women that I have known personally that have had abortions have regretted their choice - one woman had an abortion 25 years ago and still feels the loss of that baby in her life - even though it was her choice. It is sad to me how many women give into the lie that it's just tissue and not a baby and then find themselves dealing with the unexpected emotional issue of losing a baby. I don't think one can have an abortion and just "get on with life" like so many people say.

  • Sirius_Fan_Girl@xanga

    I am very, very pro-life and I would definitely want to know ahead of time if there were any problems with the baby; that way I could read up on the issue and find ways to make the baby's life, as well as my family's and my own, easier. In addition, if I had other little kids in the house, it would give me time to correctly explain the situation and show them that some people are different from others...


    I think the only case in which an abortion could be tolerated would be if the mother and baby would both die if it did not happen... inevitably, not just possibly. If it were a rape, I still think the baby should be brought up like any other kid, because it isn't the child's fault that he/she was made.


    Anyway. Just my own beliefs on the subject. :) 

  • SaDiablo@xanga

    I'm pro-choice, and (of course) I absolutely believe that you should have the option to terminate a pregnancy in the case of unfortunate medical anomalies.  One of the most horrific things I've heard of recently was a family whose daughter has a severe case of Treacher-Collins syndrome; most of her skull was missing (something like 75%).  The first obstetrician didn't inform the family of this deformity when it showed up on the ultrasound and they didn't find out until it was too late to abort -- although the parents have said they wouldn't have aborted anyway.


    I bring this up because the child in question has had over $1.5 million dollars in surgeries and still has a relatively low quality of life, her deformities are not entirely fixed and she will need lots more surgeries and long-term medical care.  Since the father is in the military, all of us taxpayers are paying for this child's medical care (which, as you can see, is extensive).  At what point do we say enough?  If, as someone said to consider, this were the 1800's, this child would not have lived.  Should we have saved her?  I don't have the answer to that, but I know that I would have chosen to abort if I had been informed.


    I think it's unconsciousable that the doctor took this matter into his own hands by not informing the parents.  I feel that's unforgivable and a violation of the Hippocratic Oath.


    @Jessysue@xanga - When the US government starts taking care of my child, then they can have the right to tell me when and if I have to have a child.  Otherwise, I'm not interested in what they have to say.

  • mamaelephant

    I wouldn't want to know because I can't say for certain what I would do.  I am glad I didn't know about Alex's autism beforehand because knowing his prognosis at the time may have had in impact on my decision.  It wouldn't even be only a matter of the emotional aspect, which is phenomenal to say the least.  Children with special needs have some very high educational and medical costs.  These are costs that could bankrupt families earning in the low 6 figure range but assistance seems to cut off at the low 5 digit range and public education is just busting at the seems and failing alot of these children.


     I know I would keep any child that ever showed up on my door step.  However, until families are able to get their children the services they need and life long supports improve (the abuse/neglect rate in assisted living is disgusting)...I refuse to judge a parent for whatever action they decide to take.  It would be great if more people could support these families emotionally and through legislation rather than sitting around deciding if they made the right choice over an issue they have little or no experience with.  Not everyone can be the type of parent these children need and the system is too broke to deny with children of special needs spending their whole lives in state care.  I don't see any celebrities combing the planet for children with special needs so until it becomes the "it " thing to do...the general public will remain "sympathetic" but largely unsupportive. (Yes there are some great advocates out there who do support legislation and awareness, but they are not the majority...yet)  Therefore, I vote for not judging these people either way.

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